Come Out Of Her My People

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by renee819

Timmy, arguing about buildings is pointless. however, I did bring up the fact in a list of other things, The RCC helped the Christians to have Church buildings but to do so, the Christians had to give up, especially Jesus name baptism and embrace other Paganistic practices, plunging the Church into the Dark Ages.

AND THIS IS VERY NUCH WORTH DISCUSSING. if people could discuss it with a level head.

With Luther starting the Reformation, even though he kept many of the RCC rules, it was a step out of the Darkness.

Today, if Time would permit, Pentecost is heading into Darkness again. Paganism, is just one of the problems. Worldliness is the other. and both are caused by lack of dedication.

I believe that God is calling all of those dedicated to TRUTH, tired of programs, building funds, talent show, etc, to, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE.

Renee, the RCC did not magically appear in 325 AD. It evolved over the course of a few hundred years.

As wrong as the RCC is in my opinion, much of your information and opinions seem to be nothing more than anti Catholic rhetoric.

The building is just one example I addressed. None of your "list" did you ever bother to substantiate. In simple terms, it's not true just because you say so.

Finally, in the course of quoting "Internet websites" one of YOUR quotes that you used as an authority, claims that among other things being PAGAN, was the idea of the virgin birth and the death of the Son.

I even posted your quote for you but you never commented

[shag]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Renee, the RCC did not magically appear in 325 AD. It evolved over the course of a few hundred years.

As wrong as the RCC is in my opinion, much of your information and opinions seem to be nothing more than anti Catholic rhetoric.

The building is just one example I addressed. None of your "list" did you ever bother to substantiate. In simple terms, it's not true just because you say so.

Finally, in the course of quoting "Internet websites" one of YOUR quotes that you used as an authority, claims that among other things being PAGAN, was the idea of the virgin birth and the death of the Son.

I even posted your quote for you but you never commented

Renee, have u read this?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You can't just read whatever is on the Internet and accept it as true.

Except this. This is true.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by n david

Except this. This is true.

BUT!!! You can read a History book, and accept that?

The Internet is a Library at your finger tips. And just as you must wade thru misinformation in History books, so also you check your facts on the internet.

If nothing you read is true, or doesn't fit your understanding of things, do you dismiss it? Then you can't believe anything.

And I believe very little of what I read, unless it fits the Word of God. Or is verified by more than one witness (writer)

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819

Where did I take 2 verses out of context. Show the context

David wrote,

In the quote below:

Originally Posted by renee819
Where does God meet people today?

Where two or Three are gathered together in My Mane, I will be in the midst of them. The difference is, A New Covenant. A New and Living Way.

If we sin, He is right there, grieving over our sin, and trying to call us to repentance.
If we meet with 2 or 3 in the middle of a sidewalk, IN HIS NAME, He is right there.
If we pray, ANYWHERE, He is there, He hears---unless our sin has separated us from God, by the hardness of our heart, because we have refused to listen for His voice, and our conscience is seared over like as with, a hot iron.

David wrote,

The first verse out of context is the oft-misapplied and oft taken out of context Matthew 18:20 - two or three witnesses. The context is that of a disagreement or fault between brethren. It's largely a restatement of Deuteronomy 19. It has absolutely nothing to do with what you stated in your post

.

Wrong David, Matt 18:19 is about prayer.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Verse 20, is what I said. Anytime, 2 or 3 Christians are gathered together in Jesus name, He is in the midst of them. Why? Among other things, to answer the prayers, that they agree on and ask the Father to do.

David wrote

The second is less so, but still somewhat misapplied - conscience seared with hot iron from 1Tim 4:2. This says nothing about God not hearing our prayer, or even us listening to His voice. It's about seducing spirits, doctrines of devils, and forbidding to marry and eat meat

.

Look at the context David,

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Because, they gave heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, they have departed from the FAITH. Therefore they “Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;”
And he mentions 2 of the lies, like forbidding to marry. And abstaining from meats.
Do you think, that is all of the lies that they tell?
The subject is about the last days, how people will depart from the faith by listening to FALSE DOCTRINE.
To do that, they gradually compromise this little thing that might not make a difference, and then that little temptation, until, “their conscience seared with a hot iron;”
And no, those verses don't say that God won't hear their prayers. But when a person has listened to seducing spirits to the point that they have forsaken THE FAITH, and, ““their conscience seared with a hot iron;” They reach a point where God will not hear their prayer.

Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear

.

I took nothing out of context

[n david]

Originally Posted by renee819

Wrong David, Matt 18:19 is about prayer.

Verse 20, is what I said. Anytime, 2 or 3 Christians are gathered together in Jesus name, He is in the midst of them. Why? Among other things, to answer the prayers, that they agree on and ask the Father to do.

Look at the context David,

I took nothing out of context

The two or three in verse 20 is the SAME two or three of the verses preceding, which is Not about services or where you assemble. It's about a brother having fault with another brother, and it's taken from Deuteronomy 19.

Even "research" on the internet will tell you the same. And you're not the only one to take it out of context. A lady at my church did the same thing today, and I've heard several Pastors even use it when attendance is down.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

The two or three in verse 20 is the SAME two or three of the verses preceding, which is Not about services or where you assemble. It's about a brother having fault with another brother, and it's taken from Deuteronomy 19.

Even "research" on the internet will tell you the same. And you're not the only one to take it out of context. A lady at my church did the same thing today, and I've heard several Pastors even use it when attendance is down.

If Jesus promises to be in the midst wherever two or three gather together in His name, then does this not mean that wherever two or three are gathered together in His name, He is there?

Jesus gave that as a REASON why the binding and/or loosing of things would be effectual. It is effectual because, when two or three are gathered in the authority of Jesus Christ, it is the same as if He were personally present (which He is, by His Spirit).

Otherwise, there is no promise for Christ to be present with us in a corporate gathering of the church unless it is for the purpose of church discipline only.

For where two or three are gathered together
This seems to be said in opposition to a Jewish notion, that a number less than ten, is not a congregation F1; whereas, though the number is ever so few that are met together to pray to God; or to hear his word, attend on his ordinances, or do the business of his house, or transact any affair that is for the glory of God, and the good of souls, in my name, says Christ; that is, by his authority, depending on his assistance, calling upon his name, and making use of it, and seeking the glory of it:

there am I in the midst of them;
presiding over them, ruling in their hearts, directing their counsels, assisting them in all they are concerned, confirming what they do, and giving a blessing and success to all they are engaged in. The Jews, though they say there is no congregation less than ten, yet own that the divine presence may be with a lesser number, even as small an one as here mentioned F2.

``Ten that sit and study in the law, the Shechaniah dwells among them, as it is said, ( Psalms 82:1 ) . From whence does this appear, if but five? from ( Amos 9:6 ) , from whence, if but three? from ( Psalms 82:1 ) , from whence, if but two? from ( Malachi 3:16 ) , from whence, if but one? from ( Exodus 20:24 ) .''

And again F3,

``two that sit together, and the words of the law are between them, the Shechaniah dwells among them, according to ( Malachi 3:16 ) , from whence does it appear, that if but one sits and studies in the law, the holy blessed God hath fixed a reward for him? from ( Lamentations 3:28 ) .''

(From John Gill's Exposition of the Bible.)

19. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name--or "unto my name."
there am I in the midst of them--On this passage--so full of sublime encouragement to Christian union in action and prayer--observe, first, the connection in which it stands. Our Lord had been speaking of church meetings before which the obstinate perversity of a brother was in the last resort to be brought, and whose decision was to be final--such honor does the Lord of the Church put upon its lawful assemblies. But not these assemblies only does He deign to countenance and honor. For even two uniting to bring any matter before Him shall find that they are not alone, for My Father is with them, says Jesus. Next, observe the premium here put upon union in prayer. As this cannot exist with fewer than two, so by letting it down so low as that number, He gives the utmost conceivable encouragement to union in this exercise. But what kind of union? Not an agreement merely to pray in concert, but to pray for some definite thing. "As touching anything which they shall ask," says our Lord--anything they shall agree to ask in concert. At the same time, it is plain He had certain things at that moment in His eye, as most fitting and needful subjects for such concerted prayer. The Twelve had been "falling out by the way" about the miserable question of precedence in their Master's kingdom, and this, as it stirred their corruptions, had given rise--or at least was in danger of giving rise--to "offenses" perilous to their souls. The Lord Himself had been directing them how to deal with one another about such matters. "But now shows He unto them a more excellent way." Let them bring all such matters--yea, and everything whatsoever by which either their own loving relationship to each other, or the good of His kingdom at large, might be affected--to their Father in heaven; and if they be but agreed in petitioning Him about that thing, it shall be done for them of His Father which is in heaven. But further, it is not merely union in prayer for the same thing--for that might be with very jarring ideas of the thing to be desired--but it is to symphonious prayer, the prayer by kindred spirits, members of one family, servants of one Lord, constrained by the same love, fighting under one banner, cheered by assurances of the same victory; a living and loving union, whose voice in the divine ear is as the sound of many waters. Accordingly, what they ask "on earth" is done for them, says Jesus, "of My Father which is in heaven." Not for nothing does He say, "of MY FATHER"--not "YOUR FATHER"; as is evident from what follows: "For where two or three are gathered together unto My name"--the "My" is emphatic, "there am I in the midst of them." As His name would prove a spell to draw together many clusters of His dear disciples, so if there should be but two or three, that will attract Himself down into the midst of them; and related as He is to both the parties, the petitioners and the Petitioned--to the one on earth by the tie of His assumed flesh, and to the other in heaven by the tie of His eternal Spirit--their symphonious prayers on earth would thrill upward through Him to heaven, be carried by Him into the holiest of all, and so reach the Throne. Thus will He be the living Conductor of the prayer upward, and the answer downward.

(From Jamieson, Faussett, and Brown's Commentary.)

(2.) The presence of Christ in the assemblies of Christians, v. 20. Every believer has the presence of Christ with him; but the promise here refers to the meetings where two or three are gathered in his name, not only for discipline, but for religious worship, or any act of Christian communion. Assemblies of Christians for holy purposes are hereby appointed, directed, and encouraged.

(From Matthew Henry's Commentary.)

Verse 20. Where two or three are gathered together in my name - That is, to worship me. I am in the midst of them - By my Spirit, to quicken their prayers, guide their counsels, and answer their petitions.

(John Welsey's Commentary.)

The idea that verse 20 promises the presence of Christ in an assembly of two or three believers only in connection with a disciplinary matter is unfounded.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by renee819

BUT!!! You can read a History book, and accept that?

The Internet is a Library at your finger tips. And just as you must wade thru misinformation in History books, so also you check your facts on the internet.

If nothing you read is true, or doesn't fit your understanding of things, do you dismiss it? Then you can't believe anything.

And I believe very little of what I read, unless it fits the Word of God. Or is verified by more than one witness (writer)

Renee, History books are written by Historians who have studied ancient texts. A real and credible History book will also include where that information comes from and even provide direct quotes.

I went through one of your proof websites and they had a lot of quotes but not one that actually supported the assertions it made about Constantine!

[houston]

Matthew 18:15-22
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819

Wrong David, Matt 18:19 is about prayer.

Verse 20, is what I said. Anytime, 2 or 3 Christians are gathered together in Jesus name, He is in the midst of them. Why? Among other things, to answer the prayers, that they agree on and ask the Father to do.

Look at the context David,

I took nothing out of context

David wrote

The two or three in verse 20 is the SAME two or three of the verses preceding, which is Not about services or where you assemble. It's about a brother having fault with another brother, and it's taken from Deuteronomy 19.

Even "research" on the internet will tell you the same. And you're not the only one to take it out of context. A lady at my church did the same thing today, and I've heard several Pastors even use it when attendance is down

.

Did you ever notice how Jesus changes subjects? Don't tell me that verse 19 is not about prayer. What are they praying about? The offence? They could, but Jesus said, ANYTHING, That word and the word AGAIN, shows that He has changed the subject temporarily.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven

.

AGAIN---Usage Notes:
..
English Words used in KJV:
again 142
[Total Count: 142]
..
probably from the same as <G3823> (pale) (through the idea of oscillatory repetition); (adverb) anew, i.e. (of place) back, (of time) once more, or (conjecture) furthermore or on the other hand :- again.


Again (FURTHER MORE—-ON THE OTHER HAND) I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, (THE CONTEXT IS---AGREE AND PRAY ABOUT---ANYTHING)

Who can do this? “If two of you!” Then Jesus goes on to say, “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

Jesus has switched the subject, Peter, brings it back to the original subject of trespasses, in verse 21. it could have been at the same time, or it could have been the next day.

What has the 2 or 3 witness's got to do with the 2 praying about ANYTHING? Or 2 or 3 meeting in the name of Jesus and He promises to be in their midst.?

If they were going to pray about the trespasses, and in answer to their prayer Jesus shows them who the guilty party is, then why do they need 2 or 3 witness's?
The 2 or 3 witnesses, could even be non-Christians​, that saw the sin committed.

In answer to your comment, "The two or three in verse 20 is the SAME two or three of the verses preceding, which is Not about services or where you assemble. It's about a brother having fault with another brother"
Is God going to be in the midst of the 2 or 3 witness's?