Can God Pray?

[votivesoul]

May we have the name of the Apostolic missionary who said this?

Surely if it was preached or published in writing, it's not wrong to make the identity known?

Is there a link to a video or something similar so we can check the quote and place it in it's proper context?

[votivesoul]

Here is a purely metaphysical explanation that I think may add something to the discussion. Here goes:

My spirit/mind may conjure a thought, idea, or plan. This thought, idea, or plan now exists in a purely non-material state (electronic impulses of the brain notwithstanding). Being immaterial, there is no separation between my spirit/mind and the thought, idea, or plan. They are one.

Through my brain, I can send that thought, idea, or plan to my organ of speech (lungs and diaphragm for air, larnyx for sound vibration, mouth with tongue, teeth, and lips).

If and when I speak that thought, idea, or plan, it becomes, through my organ of speech, a physical reality: waves of sound travelling across molecules of air.

I may even talk to myself and say "Let me see. Today I want to go to the store and buy groceries".

But notice, even though my organ of speech performed the action, I wasn't speaking to my organ of speech. I was speaking back to my spirit/mind.

Now to apply some spiritual ideas.

God as Spirit, who is the Divine Mind, may conjure a thought, idea, or plan. This thought, idea, or plan is His logos. So far, it has no material existence or reality. And yet, this logos is essentially one with the Spirit/Divine Mind.

But this logos, through the directive of the Divine Mind of God as Spirit, can be made physical and tangible through a physical organ of manifestation, i.e. Jesus Christ.

So when Jesus speaks, it may be the very Logos of God moving upon Him to speak, as the Spirit/Divine Mind of God moves to make it happen.

But in the same way that my organ of speech is neither my thought, idea, or plan, nor yet my spirit/mind, neither is the physical manifestation, i.e. Jesus Christ, the Logos per se, nor the Spirit/Divine Mind of God.

Each are what they are. So when John 1:14 reads that the Word/logos was made flesh, it does not necessarily mean the immaterial literally became material, as in the human body and frame of the Lord Jesus. Rather, it means God caused His own logos to be manifested in a literal, physical way through His Son, Jesus Christ.

In the same way, I can manifest my own logos (thought, idea, or plan) physically by speaking through my organ of speech. But my organ of speech is neither me, per se, nor my logos. Rather, it is the vessel through which I, that is, my logos, is revealed to the rest of the world.

I submit we have the same thing with God, His logos, and Jesus Christ.

So when Jesus prayed, He was not speaking to Himself as God. He was speaking back to the Spirit/Divine Mind of God (i.e. the Father), through the logos, that was inside of Him.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I understand your problem with this but I think it's misguided. Follow me for a moment. Take a snake and a cow. Clearly those are two very different things. You should not deny that they are clearly not the same thing. Instead embrace it. You have one animal with the body and everything else of a snake and another animal with the body and everything else of a cow. The cow may even step on the snake one day and the snake may even bite the cow.

Now imagine that behind the scenes in a place you couldn't see sense or detect that there was one thing which was acting and appearing like both the snake and cow at the same time. Except imagine it wasn't an act. Imagine that one thing actually existed as the snake and cow. That's prax's conception of Jesus being man and God. Jesus is the person that exists in one form as God and in another as man. He isn't tricking us or acting like one or the other. He actually is both. These are actual interactions just as the snake and cow interacted. Do you understand?

I don't do analogies.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

May we have the name of the Apostolic missionary who said this?

Surely if it was preached or published in writing, it's not wrong to make the identity known?

Is there a link to a video or something similar so we can check the quote and place it in it's proper context?

Sure, no problem....

http://www.newlifetab.net/10/post/20...nnot-pray.html

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Here is a purely metaphysical explanation that I think may add something to the discussion. Here goes:

My spirit/mind may conjure a thought, idea, or plan. This thought, idea, or plan now exists in a purely non-material state (electronic impulses of the brain notwithstanding). Being immaterial, there is no separation between my spirit/mind and the thought, idea, or plan. They are one.

Through my brain, I can send that thought, idea, or plan to my organ of speech (lungs and diaphragm for air, larnyx for sound vibration, mouth with tongue, teeth, and lips).

If and when I speak that thought, idea, or plan, it becomes, through my organ of speech, a physical reality: waves of sound travelling across molecules of air.

I may even talk to myself and say "Let me see. Today I want to go to the store and buy groceries".

But notice, even though my organ of speech performed the action, I wasn't speaking to my organ of speech. I was speaking back to my spirit/mind.

Now to apply some spiritual ideas.

God as Spirit, who is the Divine Mind, may conjure a thought, idea, or plan. This thought, idea, or plan is His logos. So far, it has no material existence or reality. And yet, this logos is essentially one with the Spirit/Divine Mind.

But this logos, through the directive of the Divine Mind of God as Spirit, can be made physical and tangible through a physical organ of manifestation, i.e. Jesus Christ.

So when Jesus speaks, it may be the very Logos of God moving upon Him to speak, as the Spirit/Divine Mind of God moves to make it happen.

But in the same way that my organ of speech is neither my thought, idea, or plan, nor yet my spirit/mind, neither is the physical manifestation, i.e. Jesus Christ, the Logos per se, nor the Spirit/Divine Mind of God.

Each are what they are. So when John 1:14 reads that the Word/logos was made flesh, it does not necessarily mean the immaterial literally became material, as in the human body and frame of the Lord Jesus. Rather, it means God caused His own logos to be manifested in a literal, physical way through His Son, Jesus Christ.

In the same way, I can manifest my own logos (thought, idea, or plan) physically by speaking through my organ of speech. But my organ of speech is neither me, per se, nor my logos. Rather, it is the vessel through which I, that is, my logos, is revealed to the rest of the world.

I submit we have the same thing with God, His logos, and Jesus Christ.

So when Jesus prayed, He was not speaking to Himself as God. He was speaking back to the Spirit/Divine Mind of God (i.e. the Father), through the logos, that was inside of Him.

It's not just praying, it's loving, dying, living, ascending, between two persons. Two entities. Your discourse doesn't address those issues.

Jesus was more than a plan, a thought, a Word, He was an entity unto Himself, separate and distinct from another entity whom He called His Father and God with whom He shared a Father/Son relationship.

[Luke]

As Jesus was both God and man and as He was our example it would not seem to be any wonder that He prayed to the Father While He was on earth. Did He pray because He did not know the will of the Father? Of course not! Rather prayed as our example so that we as mankind would have a perfect example as to how we are to live our life.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I don't do analogies.

I can't really say anything to that. If someone refuses to try and understand something because another uses an analogy... i just don't know what to say.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by seekerman

It's not just praying, it's loving, dying, living, ascending, between two persons. Two entities. Your discourse doesn't address those issues.

Jesus was more than a plan, a thought, a Word, He was an entity unto Himself, separate and distinct from another entity whom He called His Father and God with whom He shared a Father/Son relationship.

Except, as much as it pains me to say this, those issues do not actually arise in prax's philisophy. I did explain the reason why but you just refused to listen because I used an analogy.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Luke

As Jesus was both God and man and as He was our example it would not seem to be any wonder that He prayed to the Father While He was on earth. Did He pray because He did not know the will of the Father? Of course not! Rather prayed as our example so that we as mankind would have a perfect example as to how we are to live our life.

It wasn't just praying, He and His Father and God loved each other in a personal relationship. Was His will and the will of His Father and God the same? No, not according to scripture. Jesus submitted His will to His Father and God's will.

I don't disagree that Jesus was an example, but He wasn't God.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by seekerman

It wasn't just praying, He and His Father and God loved each other in a personal relationship. Was His will and the will of His Father and God the same? No, not according to scripture. Jesus submitted His will to His Father and God's will.

I don't disagree that Jesus was an example, but He wasn't God.

You do bring up one good point. The common use of the term "personal relationship" is a relationship that is between people. With Prax saying Jesus is one person that is God and man, he really can't have the man Jesus having a "personal relationship" with God who is the same person as him.

Prax has changed the meaning of person so much that Jesus and God can no longer have a "personal relationship".