Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father? - Page 10

Aquila · #91 10-24-2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It is truly sad to see the state of the "Apostolic" people today. The belief that Jesus is the Father is the VERY REASON they exist as a people.

The posts I have read in this thread sounds almost more "Unitarian" than Apostolic Oneness. People are saying Jesus is God MERELY because God was/is in him.

I thank God even tho I have never been accepted among Oneness Pentecostals that I came to this at a time (1980) when the Oneness message was still being taught by them and I as a young Trinitarian believer saw the great and glorious majesty of Jesus Christ!

I took a poll here a few years back and even then most on the forum do not understand that Jesus is the Father. I will try to set forth the beauty and power of this wonderful truth.

There is FAR MORE to this message than what most are seeing.

Oneness means "oneness"... not "singleness".

If Jesus IS the Father... why did He pray to the Father???

Jesus said,

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

Jesus didn't say,

"I, the Father, am one."

It's basic English.

Aquila · #92 10-24-2014, 02:43 PM

I weep for those who have embraced Modalism as an alleged "revelation" over Scripture.

Scripture is always right.

Here Jesus describes His "oneness" with the Father in His own words...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

Know them. Embrace them. Cherish them. Jesus is both man and God.

Michael The Disciple · #93 10-24-2014, 02:46 PM

Ok so Paul gave us a key to see who Jesus is in his fullness. He said the ROCK that was with Israel was Christ.

Watch this:

Psalms 89:25-26

25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

God speaks in verse 25 about his exaltation of king David. In verse 26 he says how he wants David to call on him.

MY FATHER MY GOD AND THE ROCK of my salvation!

Paul told the Corinthians THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST!

So again we see in the OT Christ pre existed as God the Father! What a glorious majestic truth!

crakjak · #94 10-24-2014, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

If they killed us everyone would yet be in their sins they slew Him it forgave everyone's sins. We have His fulness we are not His fulness.

Preach it, brother, now you got it!!

Aquila · #95 10-24-2014, 02:52 PM

We do no sin by describing oneness in the very words Jesus used.

And what words did Paul the Apostle use???

2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV)
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Apostle's words agree with Christ's. So should ours. When we say that the Father "dwells" in Christ, that "God was in Christ", that the "fullness of God was in Christ"... we use biblical terms. When we say that "God was Christ, reconciling the world unto himself"... we fail to be honest wit the text. The text states, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."

The inner light of God must reveal this to the believer whose mind is clouded by false teachings and assumptions. Walk in the light dear children.

Aquila · #96 10-24-2014, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

A person CANNOT be Oneness if they do not believe Jesus it the Father, any more than a person can be a Trinitarian and claim that anything other than there is only one God eternally existent in three co-equal, co-powerful person, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Words have meanings. We can't just go around calling ourselves whatever we want. If we don't fit into a particular category, then we must find a different label, or at least modify it.

"Oneness" inherently describes a union between two distinct things. Don't confuse the term "oneness" with "singleness".

Michael The Disciple · #97 10-24-2014, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I weep for those who have embraced Modalism as an alleged "revelation" over Scripture.

Scripture is always right.

Here Jesus describes His "oneness" with the Father in His own words...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

Know them. Embrace them. Cherish them. Jesus is both man and God.

Dont weep for me! I rejoice in the glorious revelation of who Christ is! Weep for yourself and for the "new" understanding of Oneness doctrine.

It is assuredly NOT the thing that caused Pentecostals by the tens of thousands to flee Trinitarianism in the beginning of the modern Oneness movement.

The pioneers thereof would cry out against this false version of their teaching if they were aware of it.

The Oneness message was and is that Christ is both the Father and the Son. If one does not believe Jesus is the Father, that is YHWH the one and only true God they do not believe in the message which was the foundation of all the early Oneness orgs.

Aquila · #98 10-24-2014, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Jesus pre existed as God the Father.

Paul gave us this.

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Paul said in the OT the Rock was Christ. If we can discover the identity of the ROCK we will know who Christ is.

Dueteronomy 32:6

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
4He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
5They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
6Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

Do you see what I see? The one who is THE ROCK in the OT was The LORD, YHWH. He also was their God, ELOHIM. And in verse 6 he was THEIR FATHER!

So when Paul said that Rock was Christ he meant Christ pre existed as God the Father in the OT. This should become second nature to every Apostolic.

If a man is one with God from conception, partaking in sharing in all that God is, was, and ever will be... can it not be said that He was what God the Father was by virtue of this ontological union???

Light · #99 10-24-2014, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok so Paul gave us a key to see who Jesus is in his fullness. He said the ROCK that was with Israel was Christ.

Watch this:

Psalms 89:25-26

25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

God speaks in verse 25 about his exaltation of king David. In verse 26 he says how he wants David to call on him.

MY FATHER MY GOD AND THE ROCK of my salvation!

Paul told the Corinthians THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST!

So again we see in the OT Christ pre existed as God the Father! What a glorious majestic truth!

Michael please explain I Cor. 15: 24-28

Aquila · #**100** 10-24-2014, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Dont weep for me! I rejoice in the glorious revelation of who Christ is! Weep for yourself and for the "new" understanding of Oneness doctrine.

It is assuredly NOT the thing that caused Pentecostals by the tens of thousands to flee Trinitarianism in the beginning of the modern Oneness movement.

The pioneers thereof would cry out against this false version of their teaching if they were aware of it.

The Oneness message was and is that Christ is both the Father and the Son. If one does not believe Jesus is the Father, that is YHWH the one and only true God they do not believe in the message which was the foundation of all the early Oneness orgs.

It doesn't matter what pioneers believed. It doesn't matter what you or I believe. What matters is what the Scripture states.

Jesus describes His oneness with the Father in His own words...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

The man Jesus Christ is the express image of God's own person made a flesh and blood human being. And the union He has with the Father allows Him to partake in all that the Father is, was, or ever will be. Therefore... Jesus is both God and man. Jesus is both the Father and the Son. But it is this "oneness" that makes this so.