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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #91  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sola gratia View Post
The sad thing is, none of you know the trinitarian doctrine on any real level. You know what others have told you. This is the biggest problem by and large. Fear and ostracization keep you from finding the truth on the matter.
You know, Mizpeh has spent a LOT of time talking to Trinitarians and having them explain to her what THEY believe. So if you got a problem with that then blame the Trinitarians. It has nothing to do with fear and ostracization.
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #92  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sola gratia View Post
this is a little closer - I commend your respect and honsety! Oneness uses "roles" Both groups use "aspects".

modalists use "modes", or "dispensations"... which early church fathers to this day describe as "heresy"
No Oneness does not use "roles". That word does not explain the differences ontologically. That word only explains the differences in roles. Even a Trinitarian can say Father and Son have different roles. And yes even a OP can say "modes" or forms or manifestations....

Maybe you are clueless as to what OPs believe out of fear and wanting to ostracize them?
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #93  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
being the one that made the funny.... sure. if a trinitarian wants to crack wise, then have at it. that doesnt change anything. God is still One. Jesus was still both God and Man.

More particularaly being that this is a Oneness board, then i will say things here among my brothers that i would not say in conversation with a trinitarian. Certainly not one with whom I am having a serious discussion with in an attempt to win them to the Lord.

speaking of things I would say here, (this is where I go all Epley on you)

I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the devils single greatest weapon. It is delusion on the grandest scale and has caused more people to go to hell than any other thing that has ever come to us.
And they DO. I have even had them say they wish we were back in John Calvins day so this person could watch me burn alive at the stake.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #94  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sola gratia View Post
I agree with this....I think.... unless the "damnable" is linked to the "Trinitarianism"
Ironic isn't it? Don't dare say the Trinity is damnable or any thing like that but that seems to be their privilege to do to non Trinitarians:sshhh
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #95  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2H View Post
Are you Trinitarian yourself?


The Trinitarian and Oneness doctrines are much closer than some of the Christology the early church Fathers were fighting.
Actually there were MANY early church history "heresies" that were called Trinitarian heresies because they all believed in FAther, Son and Holy Ghost and that they were distinct from one another. When did Trinitarians begin using the word Person...so you know Sola?
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #96  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:45 PM
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it is about time some of you stepped in and took some of the slack.
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  #97  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sola gratia View Post
Sure! But that would require you listing a few of your objections........ lets start with one or two objections and see how I fair on the sensibility scale, as well as biblical integrity.

I'll keep checking back to see if your game
Uh...don't you already know that? You were saying none of us have a clue what the Trinity really teaches as though you read our objections or misinformation already. I have not met a Trinitarian yet that has not said a non-Trinitarian does not really know what the Trinity teaches and most of them apparently don't either since they teach different forms themselves.

The same can be said of Oneness. So please don't start us off with the "you guys don't know Trinitarian doctrine" thing :-)
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #98  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:52 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sola gratia View Post
Gee - seems someone mention being the door in the bible? Who was that?

Anyway - see this is the problem with oneness theology...well one of several.. you think salvation can be had by proper baptism.. THIS IS IN YOUR MIND the "one door" ... others think it to be Christ alone.. We find our salvation in Him alone, and that is BIBLICALLY SUFFICIENT
Wrong. We don't think salvation is in someone else or something else other than Jesus. But that does NOT negate the fact the the bible says we MUST have faith. It's our faith in Him. That does not negate the fact that we MUST repent. It's US repenting. Repentance. None of these things in and of themselves save us. Jesus is the one door, but faith is the way THROUGH that door.

Bible sufficiency does not ignore ALL other scriptures when trying to make a strawman argument as you are. It's above absurd for someone to argue that OPs don't believe in the blood because they believe the importance of baptism for salvation. People like you would never make that argument when someone says they believe you have to repent or call on the name of the Lord or say the sinners prayer.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #99  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Roc View Post
The bible clearly demonstrates that the "name" is referring to authority, not to the utterance of "Jesus" as if it were an incantation.....abracadabra...


The police officer that says "Stop in the name of the law" is not saying to stop based on his utterance of the word "law"....but rather, stop by the authority he possesses as an enforcer of law....

Actually the bible clearly shows that Jesus is the authority by which we do all things AND it also shows that WHEN they did certain things they DID utter that name. Sorry folks, but that is just the plain truth. I made a thread on this once here already. I cataloged several verses and the greek that shows the early church regularly called ON the name of Jesus, not just in baptism but when praying and casting out devils.

They did this in the OT too of the Name of the LORD. They really did utter his name when blessing others and laying hands on them.

The argument that somehow because name is authority that means you don't actually SAY that name is fallacious and unbiblical
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #100  
Old 06-18-2007, 06:59 PM
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Copied from another thread

Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
AMP Act 15:17 So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,
Called=epikaleomai
ep-ee-kal-eh'-om-ahee
Middle voice from G1909 and G2564; to entitle; by implication to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.): - appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Jas 2:7 Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?
Called=epikaleomai
ep-ee-kal-eh'-om-ahee
Middle voice from G1909 and G2564; to entitle; by implication to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.): - appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.

NET bible commentary
Grk "that was invoked over you," referring to their baptism in which they confessed their faith in Christ and were pronounced to be his own. To have the Lord's name "named over them" is OT imagery for the Lord's ownership of his people (cf. 2Ch_7:14; Amo_9:12; Isa_63:19; Jer_14:9; Jer_15:16; Dan_9:19; Act_15:17).

Zodhaites
epikaléō; contracted epikalṓ; fut. epikalésō, from epí (G1909), upon, and kaléō (G2564), to call, to surname. To call upon.

(I) To call upon for aid. In the NT, only in the mid., to call upon for aid in one's own behalf, to invoke, trans.

(A) Particularly of invocation addressed to Christ for aid (Act_7:59; see Sept.: 1Sa_12:17-18; 2Sa_22:7). Generally, to invoke, pray to, worship, spoken of God (Rom_10:12, Rom_10:14; 2Ti_2:22); followed by "the name" (Act_2:21; Act_9:14; Rom_10:13; Sept.: Gen_4:26; Gen_26:25; Deu_33:19; Joe_2:32); of Christ, followed by "the name," implying the Lord Jesus Christ (Act_9:21; Act_22:16; 1Co_1:2).
(B) In adjurations, imprecations, to call upon, invoke, as a witness (2Co_1:23).

(C) In a judicial sense, to call upon, invoke a higher tribunal or judge, i.e., to appeal to, e.g., Caesar (Act_25:11-12, Act_25:25; Act_26:32; Act_28:19). Followed by an inf. (Act_25:21, "demanding by appeal that" [a.t.]).

(II) To call a name upon, i.e., to name in addition, to surname with a duplicate acc. (Mat_10:25, UBS; Sept.: Num_21:3; Jdg_6:32, the simple verb ekálesen). In the mid., in 1Pe_1:17, "if ye call him your Father" (a.t. [cf. Jer_3:19]).

(A) Particularly in Mat_10:3; Luk_22:3; Act_1:23; Act_4:36; Act_10:5, Act_10:18, Act_10:32; Act_11:13; Act_12:12, Act_12:25; Act_15:22; Heb_11:16; Sept.: Dan_10:1; Mal_1:4.

(B) "Upon whom my name is called" (Act_15:17, i.e., who are called or surnamed by my name, implying property, relation, quoted from Amo_9:12; Jam_2:7; see 2Sa_12:28, the simple verb klēthḗ, Jer_14:9).
------------------------
Some people call it witch craft and magic...others see it as simply obeying the word and doing what the Apostles did...regardless, they DID call ON the name and they called the name ON others for blessings. That's biblical

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=346
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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