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12-18-2007, 02:17 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,308
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aka Dela-Where?
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12-18-2007, 02:40 PM
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Sister Alvear
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 27,042
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getting close to the answer.
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.
If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
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12-18-2007, 02:58 PM
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Formerly known as CareyM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter
No Indeed! I really AM NOT seeking an exception to His Word. I am seeking a fulfillment of it! In its entirety (all five folds)... without salvational add-ons (personal standards)... and that is fully operational in giftings and equipping saints for their ministries.
Can you direct me to such an organization in the Delaware area?
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I can! PM me if you'd like a name and address.
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12-18-2007, 02:59 PM
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Formerly known as CareyM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter
I would LOVE to hear your testimony, CareyM...  ) |
Uuuhhhh...it's really long and not entirely over, but as I just said pm me and I'll tell you a few things.
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12-18-2007, 03:58 PM
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Rebel with a cause.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 6,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner
It feels great to be a "necessary evil." 
Gotta love that kind of appreciation. |
Folks, let's not forget the original question posed by this thread:
It wasn't "Are pastors good people?"
It was "Can one be saved without a pastor?"
I'd just like to discuss the original question, and not turn this into a "pastor hating" thread, or "Us poor pastors, no one appreciates us".
Now, can one be saved without a pastor, lol?
__________________
"Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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12-18-2007, 04:02 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
Folks, let's not forget the original question posed by this thread:
It wasn't "Are pastors good people?"
It was "Can one be saved without a pastor?"
I'd just like to discuss the original question, and not turn this into a "pastor hating" thread, or "Us poor pastors, no one appreciates us".
Now, can one be saved without a pastor, lol?
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What is your answer, Mister Phelps??  
 
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12-18-2007, 04:07 PM
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Rebel with a cause.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 6,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzyde
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My answer is that a person can be saved without a pastor. I am not a pastor hater, in fact I am an ex-pastor.
As CS has said, I believe the defining factor is that person' attitude toward a pastor that will determine their salvation.
But, I do not believe that you have to be a card carrying member of a church to be saved, any more than I believe that I have to go to another man to confess my sins.
I'll elaborate further when I have more time, lol.
__________________
"Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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12-18-2007, 04:11 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
My answer is that a person can be saved without a pastor. I am not a pastor hater, in fact I am an ex-pastor.
As CS has said, I believe the defining factor is that person' attitude toward a pastor that will determine their salvation.
But, I do not believe that you have to be a card carrying member of a church to be saved, any more than I believe that I have to go to another man to confess my sins.
I'll elaborate further when I have more time, lol.
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OK, as long as you aren't ducking your own question!!  
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12-18-2007, 04:14 PM
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Rebel with a cause.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 6,813
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Ok, I'll elaborate a bit here since I have a few minutes, lol.
To say that a person has to have a pastor to be saved is to say that the pastor has power to save a person. And the scripture clearly states that we must all "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling".
To say that a person must have a pastor to hear from God is to violate Jesus statement that "The Holy Ghost will lead and guide us into ALL truth".
To say that we need to submit to a pastor in every situation would cause us sometimes to violate Peter's edict that "we ought to obey God rather than man", because sometimes the pastor feels strongly opposed to what we feel led in the Spirit to do.
Now, does God sanction pastors? Of course. And I believe in having spiritual advisors in my life.
But, in many cases in scripture, when people were seeking a word from God, He sent them to people who were NOT their pastor, i.e. Saul on the road to Damascus was sent to Ananias, who was not his pastor, nor would he become Saul's pastor.
The Ethiopian eunuch was searching for truth, and God picked Philip up and set him down to reveal truth, and then Philip was gone again.
And the list goes on and on....
I fear that many people have deified the pastorate to the point where they can't buy a home, a car, make a move, do anything without the pastor's blessing, and that's a shame.
Are there good pastors out there? Most certainly!
But, a good pastor is smart enough to know that the folks under his care can hear from God directly, and they don't need him to be saved.
Just my humble opinion.........I now anxiously await the onslaught, lol.
__________________
"Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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12-18-2007, 04:16 PM
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Formerly known as CareyM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
Ok, I'll elaborate a bit here since I have a few minutes, lol.
To say that a person has to have a pastor to be saved is to say that the pastor has power to save a person. And the scripture clearly states that we must all "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling".
To say that a person must have a pastor to hear from God is to violate Jesus statement that "The Holy Ghost will lead and guide us into ALL truth".
To say that we need to submit to a pastor in every situation would cause us sometimes to violate Peter's edict that "we ought to obey God rather than man", because sometimes the pastor feels strongly opposed to what we feel led in the Spirit to do.
Now, does God sanction pastors? Of course. And I believe in having spiritual advisors in my life.
But, in many cases in scripture, when people were seeking a word from God, He sent them to people who were NOT their pastor, i.e. Saul on the road to Damascus was sent to Ananias, who was not his pastor, nor would he become Saul's pastor.
The Ethiopian eunuch was searching for truth, and God picked Philip up and set him down to reveal truth, and then Philip was gone again.
And the list goes on and on....
I fear that many people have deified the pastorate to the point where they can't buy a home, a car, make a move, do anything without the pastor's blessing, and that's a shame.
Are there good pastors out there? Most certainly!
But, a good pastor is smart enough to know that the folks under his care can hear from God directly, and they don't need him to be saved.
Just my humble opinion.........I now anxiously await the onslaught, lol.
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Do you think this is where the five-fold ministry comes in? Since they all work together (or are supposed to) for the perfecting of the saints.
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