Agenda Driven or Accepting of Diversity?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Yes mam I really feel that way.

Unfortunately I have had several friend who had gone liberal and that has been my experience. They make fun of anything that is holiness and ridicule those who still believe as that had once believed. This has been my experience.

You need to pick better friends in the future!

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Thanks, but sadly he probably does feel that way.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I would be considered liberal by most, but I have no intention of leaving the New Birth message.

I think WH's statement is way overboard.

With a few select people... I do too! But they are the VAST minority in my world and, as I stated before, I can tolerate a person with some different beliefs 'standard wise' but there are some who are 'lax' in areas of certain 'standards' who are yet firmly grounded in the New Birth message.

Even if the 'certain' differences are such as I wouldn't have them in my pulpit that doesn't mean that I'll do anything less than respect them.

Bottom Line: Respect provokes respect. When you don't show any respect you generally don't get any respect.

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I would be considered liberal by most, but I have no intention of leaving the New Birth message.

I think WH's statement is way overboard.

I thought we were ask our thoughts and opinion.

It has been my experience that those that I knew that were lib or went lib have left everything.

[Apprehended]

I don't know if post no. 99 on the bottom of page ten is worthy of a response or not. It may have been missed. If it is, then I would appreciate a sentiment of what is stated there.

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

I thought we were ask our thoughts and opinion.

It has been my experience that those that I knew that were lib or went lib have left everything.

It's generally the ones that throw ALL standards out the window that usually lose their grip on the New Birth doctrine as well. I have seen some variance in certain standards that didn't result in an all out casting aside of truth.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Steadfast, I'm glad you brought this up, even though it could have easily turned into an ugly shout-fest. I think, having been on both sides of the fence at some point in my life, that both sides are misunderstood. When I was very young, and had just gotten the Holy Ghost, I tended to pick up EVERYTHING that anyone preached, no matter how far out and take it upon myself as a new "standard". I thought all men of God were really men of God and trusted them explicitly. I nearly drove my family and myself crazy! I would not even walk in a room where a TV was playing, and we had five in our house!

After having worked through all that and learning to understand the Word for myself, I now have deep convictions that are from God alone and I will not change them for anyone. Now to you, I may seem like a liberal, but to most of our friends, I am a die-hard conservative. So the titles are confusing once you get outside of the OP realm.

It saddens me that I can call you brother, but you probably would not call me sister. It saddens me that my real brother, who is one of the best speakers in the world, probably could never preach in our church. (I don't blame him for that; it's just the law of the land). It saddens me that all of us cannot fellowship over the 90% that we do agree on and forget the 10% that we disagree on. It saddens me that some people on here obviously do not think that I'm saved when I know the relationship I have with Jesus.

It is discouraging to post threads on here about people getting the Holy Ghost or getting healed and only a certain few people will respond, because the more conservative ones wouldn't want to acknowledge that it could actually happen or be the real thing. Just being honest here.....

That's why I love Sis. Alvear. She can absolutely see Jesus in everyone. She has come to visit me and we are as far apart in beliefs as anyone on here, but we love each other dearly. To me, she reaches out to every end of the spectrum and knows that God is working in all of us.

Hope this doesn't sound like "woe is me". I do love and appreciate everyone on here and highly respect your beliefs. I hope that I can prove myself to you as well.

Sis. C, you don't have to prove anything to anyone, but you have in ways too numerous to mention.

[Sherri]

Well, this has definitely been an interesting thread! It's good to dialogue without malice and mean spirits that have flown around on here in days past, from both ends of the spectrum.

I will be the first to admit that some libs who leave UPC go absolutely crazy and try to get everyone else to follow them and they get very fleshly, thinking that they have liberty in all things. We have found out that the law of love is greater than the law of liberty. Some things I may have the liberty to do, but to keep from offending a brother or sister, I abstain from them. It's really not a big deal - you just try to please God in all things. Plus He has given me very definite personal convictions about some things that all my friends do, but I can't.

So, Wholehearted, there are some of us who have left that have searched out Scriptures and have decided to live holy, according to what we understand from the Word of God. We do not try to drag others out of UPC and we don't flaunt liberties and we don't make fun of those who believe much stricter standards. I think everyone has to answer to God and if He leads them to adhere to very strict things, then that's what they should do. It's not a matter of "we are enlightened" and you are not; it's just where God has led us as individuals. We have always told people to stay in UPC if you can do it with good conscience.

Thank you, Steadfast, for your kind words. I could hang out with you and have a great time; I have utmost respect for you and your church.

[anapko]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Steadfast, I'm glad you brought this up, even though it could have easily turned into an ugly shout-fest. I think, having been on both sides of the fence at some point in my life, that both sides are misunderstood. When I was very young, and had just gotten the Holy Ghost, I tended to pick up EVERYTHING that anyone preached, no matter how far out and take it upon myself as a new "standard". I thought all men of God were really men of God and trusted them explicitly. I nearly drove my family and myself crazy! I would not even walk in a room where a TV was playing, and we had five in our house!

After having worked through all that and learning to understand the Word for myself, I now have deep convictions that are from God alone and I will not change them for anyone. Now to you, I may seem like a liberal, but to most of our friends, I am a die-hard conservative. So the titles are confusing once you get outside of the OP realm.

It saddens me that I can call you brother, but you probably would not call me sister. It saddens me that my real brother, who is one of the best speakers in the world, probably could never preach in our church. (I don't blame him for that; it's just the law of the land). It saddens me that all of us cannot fellowship over the 90% that we do agree on and forget the 10% that we disagree on. It saddens me that some people on here obviously do not think that I'm saved when I know the relationship I have with Jesus.

It is discouraging to post threads on here about people getting the Holy Ghost or getting healed and only a certain few people will respond, because the more conservative ones wouldn't want to acknowledge that it could actually happen or be the real thing. Just being honest here.....

That's why I love Sis. Alvear. She can absolutely see Jesus in everyone. She has come to visit me and we are as far apart in beliefs as anyone on here, but we love each other dearly. To me, she reaches out to every end of the spectrum and knows that God is working in all of us.

Hope this doesn't sound like "woe is me". I do love and appreciate everyone on here and highly respect your beliefs. I hope that I can prove myself to you as well.

All that can be said is AMEN

Originally Posted by Sherri

Well, this has definitely been an interesting thread! It's good to dialogue without malice and mean spirits that have flown around on here in days past, from both ends of the spectrum.

I will be the first to admit that some libs who leave UPC go absolutely crazy and try to get everyone else to follow them and they get very fleshly, thinking that they have liberty in all things. We have found out that the law of love is greater than the law of liberty. Some things I may have the liberty to do, but to keep from offending a brother or sister, I abstain from them. It's really not a big deal - you just try to please God in all things. Plus He has given me very definite personal convictions about some things that all my friends do, but I can't.

So, Wholehearted, there are some of us who have left that have searched out Scriptures and have decided to live holy, according to what we understand from the Word of God. We do not try to drag others out of UPC and we don't flaunt liberties and we don't make fun of those who believe much stricter standards. I think everyone has to answer to God and if He leads them to adhere to very strict things, then that's what they should do. It's not a matter of "we are enlightened" and you are not; it's just where God has led us as individuals. We have always told people to stay in UPC if you can do it with good conscience.

Thank you, Steadfast, for your kind words. I could hang out with you and have a great time; I have utmost respect for you and your church.

Thank you, kind Lady!

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Well, this has definitely been an interesting thread! It's good to dialogue without malice and mean spirits that have flown around on here in days past, from both ends of the spectrum.

I will be the first to admit that some libs who leave UPC go absolutely crazy and try to get everyone else to follow them and they get very fleshly, thinking that they have liberty in all things. We have found out that the law of love is greater than the law of liberty. Some things I may have the liberty to do, but to keep from offending a brother or sister, I abstain from them. It's really not a big deal - you just try to please God in all things. Plus He has given me very definite personal convictions about some things that all my friends do, but I can't.

So, Wholehearted, there are some of us who have left that have searched out Scriptures and have decided to live holy, according to what we understand from the Word of God. We do not try to drag others out of UPC and we don't flaunt liberties and we don't make fun of those who believe much stricter standards. I think everyone has to answer to God and if He leads them to adhere to very strict things, then that's what they should do. It's not a matter of "we are enlightened" and you are not; it's just where God has led us as individuals. We have always told people to stay in UPC if you can do it with good conscience.

Thank you, Steadfast, for your kind words. I could hang out with you and have a great time; I have utmost respect for you and your church.

Very well said Milady.

Very well said indeed.

Also, I have been feeling guilty since reading your earlier post. I read all of your reports and enjoy them, especially the missions oriented posts, but I usually just say "Praise the Lord," and go on my way. But, in spite of the lack of response, your posts have been a blessing to me.