Anyone Here Believe In Soul Sleep?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You mean preaches issues for contention, since that is what most soul-sleepers do with the issue.

j/k lol

Hi Michael,

Im surprised at this. I guess I should not be.

I suppose no one has ever accused you of using your part preterism for contention?

And by the way I preach THE RESURRECTION like the Bible does and use the term "sleep" for death because I believe its true. Not to cause contention. I preach it with passion like I do everything I believe.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi Michael,

Im surprised at this. I guess I should not be.

I suppose no one has ever accused you of using your part preterism for contention?

And by the way I preach THE RESURRECTION like the Bible does and use the term "sleep" for death because I believe its true. Not to cause contention. I preach it with passion like I do everything I believe.

Bro., to stress soul sleep, when IT DOES NOT MATTER ANYWAY, is to seek contention. Let's say soul sleep is true. So what? What practical value does this teaching have? What difference does it make? So, why look for a church that preaches it? There is nothing of any value to it, and it is only about something to contend about.

Partial preterism has practical value. It shows us how much MORE we can do in this present life. But there is no practical value in soul sleep teaching, since it's basically just a fanciful, "I know something you do not know."

So looking for churches that preach it is only looking for contentious atmospheres. Any church that makes an issue out of something that is of no practical benefit is obviously contentious natured.

If a teaching DOES HAVE practical value to it, such as Eschatology that focuses on the present Kingdom, and people contend over it, then that is another story altogether. The proponent of it is contending over something practical that will benefit those who will listen and accept it.

If soul sleep had something practical behind it for people to value from NOW, then it would be profitable to contend for it for more than just contending to be contending. It is good to contend over something that will benefit someone practically. Soul sleep does not fit that category. You do not have to believe in it to be saved, and it makes no difference to us in the here and now if it is true or not.

Bro., look for a church that contends for something for more than the sake of being contentious, but rather something that everyone needs to know to be better believers and to encourage them to do all for the Kingdom they possibly can.

[livefortruth]

ya, his name is not yeshua it's Jesus in English. This country speaks english and if you study how much hebrew has changed yeshua though maybe correct in spelling is incorrect in american pronunciation. Might as well speak english it's what the country that needs saved needs to here. Paul spoke greek and called on his name in greek. I believe in the ressurection of the just and the unjust. Those entering the kingdom will have obeyed the instructions.

The path is straight and narrow is the gate- its ACTS 2:4 plus ACTS 2:38.

livefortruthallujah@gmail.com

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You mean preaches issues for contention, since that is what most soul-sleepers do with the issue.

j/k lol

As most Preterist do with the Preterist issue.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I had 3 Oneness Pastors all taught soul sleep. One of them now retired was teaching annihlation last I was there. I am acquianted with one big name UPC Pastor who believes it but I guess is not going to teach it openly.

To me its nothing to be ashamed of. I am ashamed of the teachings that are distorting the truth.

If you ever get time I would appreciate if you could send me the names of any Ministers who are Oneness and teach both of these things in the Kentucky area.

I would love to be a part of a Church that teaches truth.

Michael,they may agree with you on soul sleep but what other things will you disagree on ? You will never find a person you agree 100% with. I agree with you more then anyone I know but,but,but,who's wrong on some subjects,you or me.

[ronharvey]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You mean preaches issues for contention, since that is what most soul-sleepers do with the issue.

j/k lol

Yeah, you tell him gladly!

Unbelievable people would want to teach truth huh?

It might upset others who like to stay in their own pagan doctrines.

Imagine teaching the Oneness of God in Christ and people not becoming upset; huh?

or Baptism in Jesus' name, you know people ONLY teach that because they just simply want to be contentious; right?

See Gladly, ANY doctrine can be taught in love and presented in a way that is non threatening.

Personally I have had people ask me 'off the cuff' if I believed in soul sleep (or other doctrine) and it did not matter what my answer was, they would start yelling at me and telling me I was just a "breeder of contention among the brethren." I would have to say; hold it Tracy! I was just standing here and said nothing, you ask me. Don't dig into me with your issues.

It always seems to be the people who cry "contention" only consider it contention unless it is something they believe.

I always find it humorous that when a person is questioned with their own tactics they become upset. Yet, when they use those same tactics on someone else they seem to glory in their 'victory'.

Example:
The words 'Trinity, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost etc...' is not in the bible, so we badger the Trinitarian and challenge their use of these terms.

Yet, when I tell a Oneness 'Rapture, eternal soul, die and go straight to heaven/hell' is not in the Bible they go into the same diatribe the Trinitarian uses and say; "Well the WORD may not be there but the 'teaching' is!"

So, we say farewell to the belief that people can be unbiased.

Ron

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by ronharvey

Yeah, you tell him gladly!

Unbelievable people would want to teach truth huh?

It might upset others who like to stay in their own pagan doctrines.

Imagine teaching the Oneness of God in Christ and people not becoming upset; huh?

or Baptism in Jesus' name, you know people ONLY teach that because they just simply want to be contentious; right?

See Gladly, ANY doctrine can be taught in love and presented in a way that is non threatening.

You are barking up the wrong tree, bro.

Preaching Oneness in Christ and Acts 2:38 Jesus' name is preaching practical salvation. What is so practical about soul sleep? lol Does it SAVE? No. Does it affect us in the here and now? No. It's a waste of time.

Pushing a thought that has no practical value is simply being contentious and presenting a "I know more than you do" spirit.

Sorry, close but no cigar.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Joelel

As most Preterist do with the Preterist issue.

Nice try. We preach preterism because it is of practical value to know the Kingdom is not only after the church is raptured, but is NOW. Just because we wish to help believers realize they can do far more NOW in the Kingdom rather than wait for a kingdom that is not yet here to come, and people contend with us, it is not our fault they reject it. But it is worth contending for to see some others who will be open and accept it and see more in their lives now.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Bro., to stress soul sleep, when IT DOES NOT MATTER ANYWAY, is to seek contention. Let's say soul sleep is true. So what? What practical value does this teaching have? What difference does it make? So, why look for a church that preaches it? There is nothing of any value to it, and it is only about something to contend about.

Partial preterism has practical value. It shows us how much MORE we can do in this present life. But there is no practical value in soul sleep teaching, since it's basically just a fanciful, "I know something you do not know."

So looking for churches that preach it is only looking for contentious atmospheres. Any church that makes an issue out of something that is of no practical benefit is obviously contentious natured.

If a teaching DOES HAVE practical value to it, such as Eschatology that focuses on the present Kingdom, and people contend over it, then that is another story altogether. The proponent of it is contending over something practical that will benefit those who will listen and accept it.

If soul sleep had something practical behind it for people to value from NOW, then it would be profitable to contend for it for more than just contending to be contending. It is good to contend over something that will benefit someone practically. Soul sleep does not fit that category. You do not have to believe in it to be saved, and it makes no difference to us in the here and now if it is true or not.

Bro., look for a church that contends for something for more than the sake of being contentious, but rather something that everyone needs to know to be better believers and to encourage them to do all for the Kingdom they possibly can.

Michael,

I am rather stunned. I asked Ron where I could find a Church that teaches what he and I believe. You get involved in that request and tell me that I am just wanting to go to Church to cause contention.

Did God show you my heart? Did he tell you my motive for wanting to be a part of a local Assembly that teaches what I believe is contention?

The doctrine called "soul sleep" is actually the DOCTRINE OF THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. You say it does not matter. If thats true why have you bothered attacking it as strongly as you do? It must matter very much to you. You jumped into a personal request I made of another forum member to say that I only want to go to such Church for the purpose of causing contention.

So something about it apparentley is stirring in your mind. Not content just to attack it as a doctrine but to poke into my choice of where I would go to Church if I could. This is not the reaction of someone who thinks this doctrine does not matter.

To me it is Biblical truth and I will contend for it with all the passion I would for other foundation doctrines. What you are saying TO ME is to drop a foundation teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ. No thanks pal.

Partial preterism in my opinion has no practical value. If one has done their Bible study and YAH has blessed them with some good teachers in their life they will learn nothing more about what they can do in this life through the hearing of it.

To you the teaching of the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD has no practical value.

I can understand that since your belief is that when one dies they are in that moment seated in Heaven with immortality.

But since your doctrine is false when compared to the letter and intent of the Apostles that makes your own personal belief about it of no effect to me.

13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If you read verse 18 you will understand why I contend for this.

You give people a false comfort that the Spirit forbad through Paul. I oppose your teaching and promote what I believe is true.

I know there are some scriptures that lead people to believe differently than me. Thats the same way it is with any doctrine. Scripture must be taken as a whole and rightly divided.

Thats what I am doing. I have very little time to be on this forum so I cannot always milk a topic for all its worth.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by livefortruth

ya, his name is not yeshua it's Jesus in English. This country speaks english and if you study how much hebrew has changed yeshua though maybe correct in spelling is incorrect in american pronunciation. Might as well speak english it's what the country that needs saved needs to here. Paul spoke greek and called on his name in greek. I believe in the ressurection of the just and the unjust. Those entering the kingdom will have obeyed the instructions.

The path is straight and narrow is the gate- its ACTS 2:4 plus ACTS 2:38.

livefortruthallujah@gmail.com

Amen. Requiring Yashua or Yehshua instead of Jesus is another impractical message. Some simply want to claim they know more, rather than actually improve believer's Christianity.