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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #101  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:43 PM
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warrior81680 warrior81680 is offline
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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
They wore immodest clothing in Jesus' day??? That was the culture at the time???

I don't think so. Why do people go to the extremes to make a point that doesn't exist?
Human nature is the same, regardless of when in time we are referring to.

They had immodest clothing in their day, also. Not everyone was "saved" just because they lived in Israel or were Jewish in their heritage.
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  #102  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
I believe you said Hudson Taylor adopted a ponytail. Scripture declares long hair on a man as a shame.

We can go into other cultures and adapt to them, yet never violate Scriptural principles.

Well, we let God judge him then, the ultimate test besides clear scripture is the fruit, "Wisdom is justified by her children".
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  #103  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:45 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
I believe you said Hudson Taylor adopted a ponytail. Scripture declares long hair on a man as a shame.

We can go into other cultures and adapt to them, yet never violate Scriptural principles.
Again, long hair on a man is a shame depending on the culture. We have several scriptural examples of long hair on men that was completely acceptable, even without the Nazarite vow.

There are cultures where men don't cut their hair. Notice that Paul didn't preach the long hair on men issue to all the churches.
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  #104  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
Human nature is the same, regardless of when in time we are referring to.

They had immodest clothing in their day, also. Not everyone was "saved" just because they lived in Israel or were Jewish in their heritage.
The whole point of the book of Galatians was that in order to be saved you didn't have to become a cultural Jew, the Gospel stands alone outside of any culture or contexualization. In Pentecost we must not make or lead people to believe that they must be a part of our culture or how we interpret or apply the Gospel to our unique setting.

By the way, our(most) missionaries don't require their converts to look like their Western Brethren.
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  #105  
Old 04-24-2007, 01:47 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
Human nature is the same, regardless of when in time we are referring to.

They had immodest clothing in their day, also. Not everyone was "saved" just because they lived in Israel or were Jewish in their heritage.
They might have had immodest clothing, but it wasn't the norm nor was it cultural, so to say that Jesus didn't adapt to that as if it was normal is incorrect logic.

So, what did Paul mean when he said he became all things to all men? And how does what he did differ from what Jesus would have done had He travelled?
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  #106  
Old 04-24-2007, 02:02 PM
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warrior81680 warrior81680 is offline
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I believe in some areas here we are arguing apples to oranges.

I have no problem with cultural differences as long as they do not violate Scripture. Scripture has to take precedence above everything.

It is nature that teaches that long hair is a shame unto a man, not culture.
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  #107  
Old 04-24-2007, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
I believe in some areas here we are arguing apples to oranges.

I have no problem with cultural differences as long as they do not violate Scripture. Scripture has to take precedence above everything.

It is nature that teaches that long hair is a shame unto a man, not culture.
Here is one for you,

Slavery is wrong, immoral, and yet Paul because of the culture of that day, slavery was rampant and to overthrow it or advocate such action would cause major societial/economic upheavel.

Yet Paul in writing to believing slaves told them to be faithful to their masters, he even wrote believing masters and told them to treat their slaves as brothers in the Lord, the whole book of Philemon deals with this subject matter.

Of course he knew that eventually the heart converted would cause slavery to diminish yet he contextualized a sticky issue so that the Gospel could move forward. This I think was a application of becoming all things to all men.
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  #108  
Old 04-24-2007, 02:11 PM
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If I may, here is some thoughts from Ed Stetzer in a blog that he writes.

The subject is contextualizing the Gospel into the culture.

But, the Bible also clearly gives us a mandate to make the message understandable. We do more than just translate it into a language. We also have to translate it into a culture. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:22-23, "I have become all things to all men." Why? Because the message needs to be contextualized. The "how" of ministry is, in many ways, determined by the "who, when, and where" of culture. That's also essential.

We have to both contend and contextualize. This brings a balanced focus in our proclamation and practice. When we contend for the gospel, we remain biblically faithful. When we contextualize, we communicate the message effectively. When we contend and contextualize, our churches are biblically faithful, culturally relevant, counter culture communities.

Those who preach against culture are often unaware that they live in one. But the dynamic culture around them is often not the culture of their church. What they yearn for is typically not a scriptural culture, but rather a nostalgic religious culture of days past. The irony of this is that every church is culturally relevant. It is simply a matter of whether the culture of the church is in any way similar to the culture of its community or only meaningful to itself.
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  #109  
Old 04-24-2007, 02:11 PM
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Scott Hutchinson Scott Hutchinson is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
You might be suprized some of these fashions might very well come from Goodwill and consignment stores.
Well I not a flashy dresser ,my wife works for Catholic social services ,alot of my suits come from their thrift shop.
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  #110  
Old 04-24-2007, 02:13 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
I believe in some areas here we are arguing apples to oranges.

I have no problem with cultural differences as long as they do not violate Scripture. Scripture has to take precedence above everything.

It is nature that teaches that long hair is a shame unto a man, not culture.
If nature taught it, then men wouldn't be able to grow long hair. There also wouldn't be examples in scripture where men had long hair and it was acceptable, not shameful.
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