Confidentiality of Tithes

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have never dunned anyone about their tithes that is them and God. They ain't robbing me they are robbing God.

But in your estimation, would they be robbing God if they give the tithe to a needy person?


Brother Epley, why does God need money? He owns it all to begin with. We don't have to strive with each other over who gives and who does not give if we know who the Giver is. Peter and John told the man at the Gate Beautiful that ...Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. Money is always an issue but I think as believers we depend on tithes and offerings more than we depend on God assuring us that He would supply all our needs, according to his riches in glory.

Our church system mismanages what it receives. Mortgages for church buildings, insurances, utilities etc is a big waste of resources. Better that we do like the early church.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I recently heard a oneness minister tell his congregation "whose getting the better end of the deal here? You are getting the Word of God. All I'm getting is gold." What do you think of that?

I think a statement like that is stupid. My Father was a very wealthy Charismatic pastor with a congregation of about 2000 and I was his heir apparent if it had not been for the Apostolic message. I chose truth over wealth years ago and never looked back. There have been both good and lean times but God is my employer and He pays me way more than I am worth. God's people have treated me royally. I have preached in mud huts in Mexico, open air in Haiti, hot churches in Brazil and all of it has been good. I have eaten rice and beans and yes t-bone steaks. I have not ONE complaint. Canceled vacations and anniversaries to be with sick and dying saints some not even thankful I was there. Got up at all hours and rushed to hospitals. Drove hundreds of miles to hospitals and funerals. Missed supper to counsel married couples. But God knows that and he has taken care of me I have NO complaints.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

But in your estimation, would they be robbing God if they give the tithe to a needy person?


Brother Epley, why does God need money? He owns it all to begin with. We don't have to strive with each other over who gives and who does not give if we know who the Giver is. Peter and John told the man at the Gate Beautiful that ...Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. Money is always an issue but I think as believers we depend on tithes and offerings more than we depend on God assuring us that He would supply all our needs, according to his riches in glory.

Our church system mismanages what it receives. Mortgages for church buildings, insurances, utilities etc is a big waste of resources. Better that we do like the early church.

Tithes are not for the needy. In the OT they had 3 tithes but the 1st tithe was for the ministry or priesthood.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Tithes are not for the needy. In the OT they had 3 tithes but the 1st tithe was for the ministry or priesthood.

Brother, we do not live under OT laws. The tithe was given to the Levites from all the other 11 tribes because the Levites were to serve as Priests and did not receive an inheritance.

The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
(Deuteronomy 18:1)

God commanded the children of Israel to give of their inheritance to the Levites, but God did not give them any land inheritance.

And the children of Israel gave unto the Levites out of their inheritance, at the commandment of the LORD, these cities and their suburbs.
(Joshua 21:3)

I don't want to make this a long post filled with the many scriptures that support the OT tithe view.

However, the Priesthood was changed from the Levite and given to Christ, who was from the tribe of Juda.


11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (Hebrews 7:11-18)

[AreYouReady?]

New Testament giving is not a tithe giving. God loves a cheerful giver. He did not specify that one had to give to one preacher. The way our church system is set up now is not how the early church set it up. People truly gave to one another. Not one Apostle took up the "tithe" and kept it.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

New Testament giving is not a tithe giving. God loves a cheerful giver. He did not specify that one had to give to one preacher. The way our church system is set up now is not how the early church set it up. People truly gave to one another. Not one Apostle took up the "tithe" and kept it.

There is a book that you can find on the internet on "tithes" by A.W. Pink, you should read it.

[Sweet Pea]

Okay, I have a few questions for all of you. I have been a part of the UPCI for many years. I have never attended a church that the pastor took ALL the tithes (unless it was when I was a child and was unaware of such practices). The tithe went into the general fund with the regular offerings. So:

1) For those of you who believe that ALL the tithes go to the pastor, I cannot believe that you receive enough in "offerings" to pay all the bills that must be paid - utilities, insurance, mortgage (if any), general maintenance (forget about special needs like a new a/c unit) etc etc. Do YOU pay these things from the tithes that you receive?

2) For those of you who don't believe that tithing is necessary - do you give enough in "offerings" to help pay the considerable expense of maintaining the building where you attend church? I know - I know - most of you will come back and say that having church buildings isn't like the new testament church and we shouldn't be doing it that way. But it is the culture of our day to have building in which we gather to worship God. (and you can't argue with my "culture" comment because most of you will use "culture" when you present your arguments for slacks on women, shorts on men, cut or trimmed hair, men's facial hair, etc. - and please don't take that comment to assume that I am ultra-con)

Now - don't anyone get me wrong, I am just curious as to how these churches exist and pay the bills - if on one hand the pastor takes all the tithes and on the other hand, no one pays tithes.

Seems like there are flaws in both ways of thinking.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Okay, I have a few questions for all of you. I have been a part of the UPCI for many years. I have never attended a church that the pastor took ALL the tithes (unless it was when I was a child and was unaware of such practices). The tithe went into the general fund with the regular offerings. So:

1) For those of you who believe that ALL the tithes go to the pastor, I cannot believe that you receive enough in "offerings" to pay all the bills that must be paid - utilities, insurance, mortgage (if any), general maintenance (forget about special needs like a new a/c unit) etc etc. Do YOU pay these things from the tithes that you receive?

2) For those of you who don't believe that tithing is necessary - do you give enough in "offerings" to help pay the considerable expense of maintaining the building where you attend church? I know - I know - most of you will come back and say that having church buildings isn't like the new testament church and we shouldn't be doing it that way. But it is the culture of our day to have building in which we gather to worship God. (and you can't argue with my "culture" comment because most of you will use "culture" when you present your arguments for slacks on women, shorts on men, cut or trimmed hair, men's facial hair, etc. - and please don't take that comment to assume that I am ultra-con)

Now - don't anyone get me wrong, I am just curious as to how these churches exist and pay the bills - if on one hand the pastor takes all the tithes and on the other hand, no one pays tithes.

Seems like there are flaws in both ways of thinking.

There are enough variables to make this almost impossible to answer. Every church has unique financial needs, from the home church that may need to cover the expenses of paper products to serve coffee and snacks to the sports-arena mega church.

Up until I began attending church with the UPCI more than a decade ago I always knew exactly how my money was spent. As a matter of fact at most southern baptist churches the 'tithes and offerings' collected from the last week, a running annual total, and expenses are listed with the announcements in the bulletin every week. The pastors salary as well as any other paid staff is available at business meetings. Stewardship is overseen by a board of elders/deacons.

Now the UPCI churches I have belonged to are not small... one was very large and the most recent is medium large. The pastors in both cases, receive all monies. There are several 'funds' which include a building fund and a general fund. Bills are paid out of the funds. I am sure others can find out what is in those funds but the main money is kept by the Pastor and no one knows how much that is or what he takes for a salary. My husband was told by a pastor friend that he is careful about how much is put in those funds because if they grow too large people start making plans on the money.

So to try to answer the support question... Both UPCI churches I have attended employ staff including an associate pastor, who does the hospital visits and most the grunt work, a full time secretary, people for housekeeping and grounds work. The lights are always on and both pastors have VERY nice homes, brand new cars (as do their wives who do not and never have worked) lake houses, one a motor cycle, very good retirement savings (known because of bragging about how they do not need my money they have all they will ever need, over the pulpit). Both appear to live and be set up well beyond their average congregant. BUT ONLY THE PASTOR KNOWS HOW MUCH MONEY THERE IS OR HOW IT IS SPENT.

In addition both have sons who have been in the ministry but have made a mess of things, in some of those cases they have gotten the big daddy bale out... while others are outright supported on the church payroll until the day they might receive their inheritance, just as Bro. Epeley mentioned.

It is that I consider this kind of conduct unacceptable that has me looking at other churches along with the long list of rules that are not biblical.

And before anyone asks... I don't wear pants or makeup or cut my hair or drink or smoke or even own a television and i am submitted to my own husband and we give above 10% of our income to our church home, orphans and the needy....and I could do all those things for the rest of my life without complaint... but I can not abide the lies, the arrogance, the double standard that are an innate part of the church system that I am part of.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Tithes are not for the needy. In the OT they had 3 tithes but the 1st tithe was for the ministry or priesthood.

Could you please provide for me the scriptures that cover the first tithe that you mention that was for the ministry or priesthood?

[Titus2woman]

Do you ever get to a lot of words and feel like you failed to say what's really on your heart/mind?... My last post was like that.

I think I said all that to say that it has been my experience that many times the Pastors financial agenda and the membership's financial agenda are very different. Whether it's building a big church to hand down to a son when the membership desires neither the debt of a huge building or the son as a pastor or by the pastor taking a large salary and living so far above those who attend his church. So far above, that they can not even live within 25 miles of the church because there just aren't nice enough neighborhoods...

What is one to do? Years after leaving my first church over these kinds of things I still miss my church family terribly. Anyone who has ever really made a church their home then had to leave it knows exactly what I mean. The experience ripped my heart out. And at least I had another apostolic church to go to... what of those who did not? And now a few years down the road I find that my 'new' pastor is not so different from the first but does put on a better pretense. By that I mean he appears to be compassionate behind the pulpit (where the other guy was kind of a jerk) but still does nothing to help those in need.

Pastors are supposed to tend the sheep, not fleece the sheep to line their own nests. So far my experience has not shown that most of them care one wit about that.