Come Out Of Her My People

[n david]

Originally Posted by renee819

Did you ever notice how Jesus changes subjects? Don't tell me that verse 19 is not about prayer. What are they praying about? The offence? They could, but Jesus said, ANYTHING, That word and the word AGAIN, shows that He has changed the subject temporarily.

Jesus wasn't changing subjects here! Verse 19 and 20 are a reiteration of verses 15-18. Verse 19 is about the binding and loosing, and deals with the fault and how the brother in fault responds. Yes, they are agreeing and asking concerning the trespass.

The word "Again" does not mean Jesus changed the subject; it just means He is re-emphasizing His point. It's funny you missed the part of your own definition of "again" where it speaks of repetition. Furthermore, do you understand what "furthermore" means? It doesn't mean to change the subject. It's means to give addition to the present subject.

Originally Posted by renee819

Again (FURTHER MORE—-ON THE OTHER HAND) I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, (THE CONTEXT IS---AGREE AND PRAY ABOUT---ANYTHING)

The context is not agree and pray about anything. Context is what surrounds the verse in question.

Originally Posted by renee819

Who can do this? “If two of you!” Then Jesus goes on to say, “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

Jesus isn't with you when you pray alone? When you ask God for something in your solitary time of prayer, He's not with you and doesn't answer?

Originally Posted by renee819

Jesus has switched the subject, Peter, brings it back to the original subject of trespasses, in verse 21. it could have been at the same time, or it could have been the next day.

Again, as stated previously, Jesus did not change the subject.

Originally Posted by renee819

What has the 2 or 3 witness's got to do with the 2 praying about ANYTHING? Or 2 or 3 meeting in the name of Jesus and He promises to be in their midst.?

Read Deuteronomy 19:15-21. The witnesses stood before the Lord, the priests and judges. The judgement or pardon was done before the Lord, just as the binding and loosing is done in Matthew 18.

Originally Posted by renee819

If they were going to pray about the trespasses, and in answer to their prayer Jesus shows them who the guilty party is, then why do they need 2 or 3 witness's? The 2 or 3 witnesses, could even be non-Christians​, that saw the sin committed.

Where in those verses does it say Jesus shows them who the guilty party is? Don't add to the verse to try and prove your point. It says nothing about Jesus showing them who it is; this is why the 2 or 3 witnesses is required.

[renee819]

Thank YOU, Esaias!!!!

Now, I need another witness, not only on this sidetrack subject, but the fact that the Church needs to come out of Paganism.
But first, their eyes has to be opened to the Pagan practices that has been handed down.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by renee819

Thank YOU, Esaias!!!!

Now, I need another witness, not only on this sidetrack subject, but the fact that the Church needs to come out of Paganism.
But first, their eyes has to be opened to the Pagan practices that has been handed down.

Someone explain to me how being IN PAGANISM is not the same thing as SIN?

Someone explain to me how being BLIND is not equivalent to a HEAVEN AND HELL issue

[houston]

Is she serious?? Jesus didn't change the subject.

[Esaias]

So now that we have dealt with the side issues, the fact also remains that God commands his people to 'come out of Babylon'.

Failure to 'come out' results in two things:

1. Participating in Babylon's sins. And,
2. Receiving the same punishments from God.

Biblical Christianity is a 'come-outer' religion.

The early church had to come out of Judaism (for the Jews) and paganism (for the gentiles). The same thing is true today (although the influence of Judaism is growing amongst professing Christians, it is still yet slight compared to the influences of paganism).

Of course, most people are not willing to 'go outside the camp'. They either want to 'reform' their compromised 'church', or they are just happy with things as they are. Some even want to further the compromise, hoping to be 'change agents' to 'modernize' the theology and faith of others.

But reform movements never succeed. They always wind up in need of reformation themselves. Witness the Methodist church, as a perfect example. They made some 'reformations', but did not go further. And so people had to 'come out' yet again... resulting in the Holiness revival. And then, they too ossified, and did not go on. So once again, when God moved, His people had to come out.

Here we are today. The pillar is moving, but many will be 'left behind' to die in the wilderness.

The call to come out from false religion, and get back to the unadulterated Word of God and the faith ONCE delivered to the saints, to the faith of the original church, and of the apostles of the Lord, is just as valid today as it was 2,000 years ago.

And meets with much of the same kinds of opposition as it did back then.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So now that we have dealt with the side issues, the fact also remains that God commands his people to 'come out of Babylon'.

Failure to 'come out' results in two things:

1. Participating in Babylon's sins. And,
2. Receiving the same punishments from God.

Biblical Christianity is a 'come-outer' religion.

The early church had to come out of Judaism (for the Jews) and paganism (for the gentiles). The same thing is true today (although the influence of Judaism is growing amongst professing Christians, it is still yet slight compared to the influences of paganism).

Of course, most people are not willing to 'go outside the camp'. They either want to 'reform' their compromised 'church', or they are just happy with things as they are. Some even want to further the compromise, hoping to be 'change agents' to 'modernize' the theology and faith of others.

But reform movements never succeed. They always wind up in need of reformation themselves. Witness the Methodist church, as a perfect example. They made some 'reformations', but did not go further. And so people had to 'come out' yet again... resulting in the Holiness revival. And then, they too ossified, and did not go on. So once again, when God moved, His people had to come out.

Here we are today. The pillar is moving, but many will be 'left behind' to die in the wilderness.

The call to come out from false religion, and get back to the unadulterated Word of God and the faith ONCE delivered to the saints, to the faith of the original church, and of the apostles of the Lord, is just as valid today as it was 2,000 years ago.

And meets with much of the same kinds of opposition as it did back then.

So you believe, like Renee, that church buildings were brought in by the RCC, are sinful and we should "come out" of them and form house churches?

That's the opposition in this thread, at least from me. The first post was about these things she alleges were brought in by the RCC, which are sinful and we need to "come out" from. They include church buildings, tithes, clergy, and "many other things" which weren't mentioned.

Obviously we need to "come out" from the world and paganism. I would argue there are hundreds, if not thousands of churches which have done so. But her stated resolution: "And the only way that I see “to come out of her” is to start Home Churches by those that are completely dedicated to God," I disagree with.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

So you believe, like Renee, that church buildings were brought in by the RCC, are sinful and we should "come out" of them and form house churches?

I don't recall the sister saying church buildings are sinful.

Obviously, you are quite adept at creating straw men and then knocking them down, instead of dealing with what people actually post.

As for the Matthew 18 passage, I already made my points, you just repeated your cries of 'no it's not!', so we are at an impasse.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I don't recall the sister saying church buildings are sinful.

Obviously, you are quite adept at creating straw men and then knocking them down, instead of dealing with what people actually post.

Originally Posted by renee819

Come Out Of Her My People

Let's face it. We are ruled in the churches by Pagan Christianity.
It was the Catholic Church that brought in the Trinity baptism.
The hierarchy of Clergy and Laity.
The paying of tithes.
Church buildings
And many other things.

And the only way that I see “to come out of her” is to start Home Churches by those that are completely dedicated to God.

Yet, if we know better.

This isn't just a suggestion, “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” I believe that we should forsake all the things that SHE brought in, and go strictly by the Bible.

You were saying? This was the original post. I'm not making some straw man. I was dealing what what the post stated. "be not partakers of her sins...forsake all the things that 'she' brought in (church buildings is mentioned as one of those things)."

Originally Posted by Esaias

As for the Matthew 18 passage, I already made my points, you just repeated your cries of 'no it's not!', so we are at an impasse.

You're completely ignoring (even with your response above) verses 15-18 and Deuteronomy 19 to make your points. Your points are incorrect when placed into the frame of the full passage of Matthew 18:15-22 and Deuteronomy 19.


Answer this: Is Matthew 18:15-22 about how to deal with trespass and sin, or is it about how many people God is with? 15-22 is the context. You cannot separate 15-18 from 19-22. They are inseparable.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by n david

You were saying? This was the original post. I'm not making some straw man. I was dealing what what the post stated. "be not partakers of her sins...forsake all the things that 'she' brought in (church buildings is mentioned as one of those things)."


You're completely ignoring (even with your response above) verses 15-18 and Deuteronomy 19 to make your points. Your points are incorrect when placed into the frame of the full passage of Matthew 18:15-22 and Deuteronomy 19.


Answer this: Is Matthew 18:15-22 about how to deal with trespass and sin, or is it about how many people God is with? 15-22 is the context. You cannot separate 15-18 from 19-22. They are inseparable.

Added up, this has to be about the 3rd or 4th time we have combined pointed out exactly what she said verbatim.

Yes Essias that is exactly what she implied by referring to it as PAGAN and to tell everyone over and over and over "Come out of her my people"

Let me remind you guys of that verse (which should also serve to prove she misused that verse)

Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;
Rev 18:5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.
Rev 18:7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, 'I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.'
Rev 18:8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So now that we have dealt with the side issues, the fact also remains that God commands his people to 'come out of Babylon'.

Failure to 'come out' results in two things:

1. Participating in Babylon's sins. And,
2. Receiving the same punishments from God.

Biblical Christianity is a 'come-outer' religion.

The early church had to come out of Judaism (for the Jews) and paganism (for the gentiles). The same thing is true today (although the influence of Judaism is growing amongst professing Christians, it is still yet slight compared to the influences of paganism).

Of course, most people are not willing to 'go outside the camp'. They either want to 'reform' their compromised 'church', or they are just happy with things as they are. Some even want to further the compromise, hoping to be 'change agents' to 'modernize' the theology and faith of others.

But reform movements never succeed. They always wind up in need of reformation themselves. Witness the Methodist church, as a perfect example. They made some 'reformations', but did not go further. And so people had to 'come out' yet again... resulting in the Holiness revival. And then, they too ossified, and did not go on. So once again, when God moved, His people had to come out.

Here we are today. The pillar is moving, but many will be 'left behind' to die in the wilderness.

The call to come out from false religion, and get back to the unadulterated Word of God and the faith ONCE delivered to the saints, to the faith of the original church, and of the apostles of the Lord, is just as valid today as it was 2,000 years ago.

And meets with much of the same kinds of opposition as it did back then.

Is this supposed to be in agreement with her that we are all in Babylon because we are in a "building"?