Show Me the Money

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

There were 4 tithes Num. 18, Deut. 12 & 14, Lev. 27 PLUS OFFERINGS and TEMPLE tax.
The interesting note on the OTHER 3 tithes that was not specified to give the Levite he was included in that giving it was EXTRA above and beyond the 1st tithe whish is the Lord's.
So he got 3 bonuses besides the regular tithe.

SHOUT NOW!

If that be true, then why is it taught today only one is to be given???I think I know, but will let you answer.


Maybe another day i'll show there wasn't three or 4 tithes but the tithe was used differently depending on what year it was.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

If that be true, then why is it taught today only one is to be given???I think I know, but will let you answer.


Maybe another day i'll show there wasn't three or 4 tithes but the tithe was used differently depending on what year it was.

Bump fro Elder Epley It was refering to the thought there was 4 tithes.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

If that be true, then why is it taught today only one is to be given???I think I know, but will let you answer.


Maybe another day i'll show there wasn't three or 4 tithes but the tithe was used differently depending on what year it was.

Bump for Elder Epley It was refering to the thought there was 4 tithes.

[J-Roc]

The most problematic area is when Christians use the rules of tithing interchangeably with the concept of giving. Those that teach that Christians must "give of their firstfruits (which some say is the tithe) and offerings unto the Lord", do not actually perform other Old Testament rituals. Moreover, they dont perform all of the rules and regulations associated with the tithe and offering rituals, but instead, are very selective in which ones they perform.

Tithes (in its true definition) was never based on finances. It always consisted of an edible substance, and is either eaten by the priests and worshippers or it is burned. The required items for the tithes and offerings consist of: seed of the land (crops), fruit of the trees, animals of the herd (i.e. cow or bull) or animals of the flock (i.e. sheep or goat). The tithe is not money. And the money standard has been around since the time of Abraham and possibly much earlier.

Leviticus 19:35-36 - Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity. Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah and an honest hin. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt.

And yet we never see Abraham tithing his money. Money is never used as the sacrifice and later burnt or eaten - even though money is prevalent throughout the Old Testament. Again, the primary substances for sacrifices under the law include fruit, animals and grain. The sacrificial iten of the written law is, for the most part, eaten and many times burned upon the altar. However, money was never treated in this manner. On the other hand, money is used to redeem dedicated items unto the Lord and to build and restore the tabernacle.

The fact is that the Old Testament law contains many different offerings for many occassions. However, most Christians have been taught to replace all of them with just one monetary offering.

[Excerpted from Beyond Tithes and Offerings]


This shuts the mouths of those that wish to make it seem that the sacrifices are to be our modern day monies.

[RandyWayne]

I know the above situation is an extreme example but it does happen none the less and it makes me want to puke!

We are NOT living like old Israel and no longer have a Levite tribe to send out money too. Whether I had 8 million, 800 or 80 thousand, I would make sure the money was going to the right causes. To simply say someone else is accountable is wrong. I would rather see millions go to the Rev Grahms Christmas Box program than see one preacher buy a stretch limo no matter how deserving.

[RandyWayne]

Ok, I just posted what I thought was a very good comment on the pastor and his wife with the stretch limo.... and now it is not here.....

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ok, I just posted what I thought was a very good comment on the pastor and his wife with the stretch limo.... and now it is not here.....

yes it be.

[SDG]

continued ...

Malachi 2:1-9... Admonition for the Priests(Notice here God through the prophet speaks of the the admonish of the Priests not, I repeat not the people)
"1 And now this admonition is for you, O priests. 2 If you do not listen, and if you do not set your heart to honor my name," says the LORD Almighty, "I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not set your heart to honor me. 3 "Because of you I will rebuke your descendants; I will spread on your faces the offal from your festival sacrifices, and you will be carried off with it. 4 And you will know that I have sent you this admonition so that my covenant with Levi may continue," says the LORD Almighty. 5 "My covenant was with him, a covenant of life and peace, and I gave them to him; this called for reverence and he revered me and stood in awe of my name. 6 True instruction was in his mouth and nothing false was found on his lips. He walked with me in peace and uprightness, and turned many from sin. 7 "For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, and from his mouth men should seek instruction-because he is the messenger of the LORD Almighty. 8 But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi," says the LORD Almighty. 9 "So I have caused you to be despised and humiliated before all the people, because you have not followed my ways but have shown partiality in matters of the law."

Notice verse 1 "this admonition is for you, O priests", and verse 4 where God says, He is sending these evil priests this admonition because of His covenant with Levi that it may continue. Then in verses 5 and 6 God speaks of His covenant with Levi and how Levi "stood in awe" of His Name and gave Him "reverence and revered" His Holy Name (this is why ministers should refuse to be called reverend - for only God deserves to be called reverend - yet, since this sin is so common among the churches of Babylon the Great these ministers refuses all sound reasoning in this matter even resisting the Holy Spirit). Next, God praises Levi for giving "true instruction" and "nothing false was found on his lips"; but these priests in verses 7 and 8 are bearing false witness about the word of God nor are they preserving knowledge (you would expect men of God to give sound doctrine).
They were causing many to stumble because of their teaching; and of these "sons of Levi" God says, they "have violated" (v. 8) His covenant between Him and Levi. God also says in verse 9 that He have caused them "to be despised and humiliated before all the people", because they did not follow His ways and showed "partiality in matters of the law". (We see and hear this today when the men refuse to go to these churches (most them are filled with women) and others even accuse these lovers of money of living high on the hog while their churchgoer can barely pay their rent and feed their family).

And for those of you who are faithful givers of tithes, you will be able to see this when these gospel peddlers only help those who give to their churches (if you are not a member then you of out of luck), and only those who tithe to them are allowed to speak in their churches. Yet, these gospel peddlers wonder out loud in their sermons why people despise them for their behavior; and they still believe you should reverend them when they have not honored and revered God nor kept His laws.

Now, let us re-read Malachi 3 again, where it speaks of these priests (today, they are commonly called ministers or some other names which I will not mention nor should they use them because it blasphemes God Holy Name) robbing God - we will start in verse one, and I want you to pay particular attention to verses 3-5, and 9; where we see the phrases "sons of Levi", "that they may offer to the Lord an offering in righteousness", "then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem", "those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans", and "even this whole nation".

You know the more I study what God really says about "tithes and offerings"; the more I wish these gospel peddlers would rightly divide God’s word for a change and give God His honor and reverence among the people of this world. For many of our poor widows and fatherless children would be cared for with the tithe money they collect, and God would receive His honor and be reverend. Yet, these ministers uses your "tithes and offerings" for "their pet projects". Oh yea, they will definitely declare to you the word of God when they stand to profit from it, but never are they truthful when it may take money out of their pockets and their "human organizations" aka "their churches".

Malachi 3:1-7... The Coming Messenger of God... "1 Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," Says the LORD of hosts. 2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire And like launderers' soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness. 4 "Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem Will be pleasant to the LORD, As in the days of old, As in former years. 5 And I will come near you for judgment; I will be a swift witness Against sorcerers, Against adulterers, Against perjurers, Against those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans, And against those who turn away an alien--Because they do not fear Me," Says the LORD of hosts. 6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob. 7 Yet from the days of your fathers You have gone away from My ordinances And have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you," Says the LORD of hosts. "But you said, "In what way shall we return?'"

Do Not Rob [Note: This is another subtitle added by the translators which implies that these verses are speaking about people in general rather the priests - the sons of Levi who collected the tithes.]

[SDG]

continued ...

Malachi 3:8-12... "8 Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, "In what way have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings. 9 You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. 10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this," Says the LORD of hosts, "If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it. 11 "And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground, Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field," Says the LORD of hosts; 12 And all nations will call you blessed, For you will be a delightful land," Says the LORD of hosts."

Now, we see here God were speaking to those who were of the Levitical priesthood (Malachi 1:6-8; Malachi 2:1,4,7-8; Malachi 3:3-5). God in Malachi chapter 3 gives us the time of Christ correction of these sons of Levi for their sins against Him in verses 3:1-3. Notice the phrase "I send My messenger"(v. 3:1) this phrase refers to John the Baptist (Malachi 4:5-6 and Matthew 17:9-13) who came and prepared the way for Christ Jesus; and his message was "to bear witness of the Light" (John 1:7) and "the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" (Mark 1:4) so people would receive Christ as the One who Saves (Luke 7:26-30).

Next, we have the phrase, "the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant" (v. 3:1) this phrase refers to Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior (the second Adam) who came to pay the penalty for the sin of Adam and of all Mankind; and to make another Covenant (a New Covenant) with the people whom God would call, a chosen people of priests for His new nation (Hebrews 8 and 1 Peter 2:9-10). So you see, we have the time frame for the purifying of the "sons of Levi" (the priesthood) as the Holy Spirit says of the Messenger of the Covenant, "He will purify the sons of Levi, and purge them" (v. 3:3).

Christ Jesus, as the Messenger of the Covenant have already purged these "sons of Levi" and purified those who would be called and chosen by God.

The priesthood has changed, and Christ is the High Priest of this royal priesthood (Hebrews 2:1;4:14-15; and Hebrews chapters 5-10 of which I will speak more of later).When we get to the phrase, "who can endure the day of His coming?" (v. 3:2), this further identify the arrival of Christ to purify and purge the priesthood (sons of Levi) that "they may offer to the LORD an offering in righteousness" (v. 3:3). I ask this question are there "sons of Levi" offering up "an offering in righteousness" today?

Are not the priests of the New Covenant royal priesthood offering up offerings to God and His Christ in righteousness today? Malachi is the last book of the old Covenant because this closes out the old nation of Israel for the bringing in of the new Covenant as it is written in the book of Hebrews.

Now, let us go back to these priests and sons of Levi during Malachi time. They were denying the portions of the tithes which belonged to the "widows and orphans" and the alien (every three years they were to share the tithes they received with needy) in the land of Israel (Deut. 14:27-29 and Mal. 3:5). Having already proved from Malachi 1 and 2 that the priests, the sons of Levi were the ones who are said to have been robbing God of His "tithes and offerings" in Malachi 3:8. If you still do not see this at this stage of my paper, then I pray that you please ask God for understanding with a humble and teachable heart, and He give you understanding in this too.Furthermore, this can be seen clearly in these verses in the book of Malachi where God says of these corrupt "sons of Levi"; "you place defiled food on My altar", you say "the LORD's table is contemptible" (Mal. 1:7), and "you bring blind animals for sacrifice" (Mal. 1:8). Then, we come to Malachi 3 where God speaks of purifying and purging the sons of Levi, and that God will come near to them for judgment.

He "will be a swift witness against... those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans, and against those who turn away an alien" (Mal. 3:5). As you can see God says, these "sons of Levi" were receiving the "tithes and offerings" from the people, but they were taking the best for themselves (for the Spirit says they exploited wage earners) and refusing to give to and support the widows, orphans, and aliens in the land.

Now then, I say to you, the people were bringing their tithes and offerings to these corrupt priests; but they were teaching the people to bring "crippled or diseased animals" to sacrifice while still requiring them to bring the required tithe and offering for them to profit from (Isaiah 3:14 and Amos 4:1). These priests and the sons of Levi were robbing God.So now, we come to the question; if the sons of Levi, the priests were robbing God then who represented God in Malachi 3 and on this planet? For those of you who are asking this question because you believed the priests and the "sons of Levi" represented God in Malachi, please re-read Malachi 2:8-9; 3:4-5.

If you are asking this question because you are thinking that these human organizations called churches or your minister represent God then here is a truth you can trust, they do not. And those ministers who claim their human organizations are God's house then they are wrong nor do they represent God. First of all, your body is God's house (His temple); if indeed you have the His Spirit and the Spirit of His Christ living in you. And further proof that these church houses of this world are not God's houses is this, that throughout God's word He compares and speaks of Himself as being among the poor and oppress of the land. The poor and needy of the ones God says He stands up for and takes up their cause - what you do to them you do to God (Psalm 12:5, Proverbs 14:31 and Matthew 25:35-46). These Scriptures tell us that God lives among the poor and needy of this world.

[SDG]

Now ... I must admit I am befuddled that many of the modern day Levites who support getting ALL OF THE TITHE for their own personal consumption ... have given little exegesis for why they feel they are entitled to it all ... not surprised, however.

I may not have graduated w/ honors , as many have, from the Verbal Bean Skool of Theology, in Backwoods, Appalachia ... but I do know that scripture harmonizes and that when studying it ... context is a key to understanding it.

It is contemptible for those who choose to perpetuate the myth that the NT teaches a compulsory tithe by teaching this OT practice is for today yet will not apply the principles of management as it was mandated in the OT by God, himself...

Certainly, the Levites received various types of tithes. We could argue how many ... or whether it was done in yearly cycles ... all that is irrelevant ....

Facts about the purposes of OT tithing are not being taught by those who seek to manipulate their flocks by beating them up w/ selective theology ... these dogmatic despots/lords over theocratic fiefdoms want their serfs to believe in a system but will not administrate it in the manner that it was designed for by God, himself.

Tithing, in patriarchal times, was an act or expression of worship. Tithing is not again discussed in the Pentateuch until the time of Moses — with the establishment of a priesthood in Israel. Mosaic law required the Israelites to pay tithes to the Levites, who did not own land, the usual means of support (Numbers 18:21-24). The Levites, in turn, gave one tenth of what they received to the Aaronic priesthood (verses 25-32).


Let's do the math ... these are the tithes received by the Levites, who were the civil and religious servants in a theocratic nation, and worked tirelessly 24/7 ... they then turned around and gave a tenth of the tithe [1/10, or 1%] to the Aaronic priests, or the equivalent of our modern day pastor.

Guess what? the Aaronic priests never got the entire tithe ...EVER !!!

We've also established that some of the tithes went back to the people during feasts and some of it went to the poor and needy.

WHERE ARE THE PURVEYORS OF TRUTH ... WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRUTH ABOUT OT TITHING???

Although the Levites received the tithe, it did not belong to them. The tithe belonged to God. It was "holy" (verse 32), sanctified for God's use and purpose. God was simply defining how his tithe was to be used.