Trinity: False Doctrine of Blind Leaders.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

They have heard of Oneness as "Jesus only" and call us a cult. This comes from my neighborhood not the internet.

Most trinitarians haven't even heard of that. For that matter, most trinitarians don't even know the history of their own doctrine.

[sola gratia]

Originally Posted by Chan

Most trinitarians haven't even heard of that. For that matter, most trinitarians don't even know the history of their own doctrine.

agreed

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Chan

You clearly don't understand the doctrine if you are operating under the assumption that there is only one version of the doctrine. The trinity doctrine of the Nicene and Constantinopolitan Creeds is very different from many of the modern versions of the trinity doctrine (such as John Ankerberg's doctrine in which he defines "persons" as "centers of consciousness").

I understand the orthodox doctrine set forth in the creeds and the doctrine of perichoesis.

But I am aware there are many flavors of Trintarianism that range from one extreme to the other.

I haven't had time to read your book because of a Greek class I'm taking. I know you believe differently than most and when discussing your thoughts on a begotten Son, one Trintarian told me that in their view you were not a Trinitarian!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Us vs. them .... plain old silly .... if we have the same Spirit ... are his or not his????

We are his, but some would not agree. Trinitarians and Oneness alike.

[sola gratia]

I'd be interested in whatever book you may have available on the subject

[sola gratia]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We are his, but some would not agree. Trinitarians and Oneness alike.

It seems you more generally accept or call people "His" than others - unless I misread
If not - then it's an admirable quality

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by sola gratia

No, I don’t really – I have a chip on my shoulder of the prejudice against Trinitarians – The issue of ONE GOD is not the debate – the composition of GOD is – the manner in which HE exists as Father, Son and Holy Ghost is the issue, and regardless of the propaganda seen here – it is no simple issue.
Some have become so anti Trinitarian – that they have abolished the existence of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, or any distinction there may be – this is poor biblical interpretation – and anti-biblical.

It frustrates me to know that we have ostracized an entire group of Christianity that perhaps 95% and probably even more than that here and abroad can adequately discuss – when we call them 3 god monsters, polytheistic, and 3 god papists… it displays the ignorance that is ours – and the reason we are so quickly dismissed in mainstream Christianity – this our approach and thus our lot in life – little more than a blurb in world evangelism, and the history books –

Once again I have to wonder where you get your statistics, 95%!!!!!!

Some Trinitarians can discuss their doctrine from the Bible convincingly, but many cannot and I believe those that cannot quote scripture to describe their beliefs is much less than 95%.

We are not all ignorant of the doctrine of the Trinity. I was until last year. I have been given an education the hard way and the more I learn the more I see it for what it is.....a doctrine of man. Recently I've been reading more of the writings of the early fathers and about the early fathers. The doctrine of the Trinity took many many years to refine into what it is today.

Have you read Tertullian? His Trinity is much different from the "orthodox" version and he even admitted the majority of simple "believers" thought he was polytheistic in his day and age. What does that tell you?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by sola gratia

It seems you more generally accept or call people "His" than others - unless I misread
If not - then it's an admirable quality

If you have been filled with the Spirit of God, then you belong to God. I'm not saying you are saved.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Chan

You really DON'T know what you're talking about. Most Trinitarians would NEVER describe their belief as belief in three divine BEINGS. There are some who would and I would argue that if they're describing their belief that way then their belief is not in the trinity doctrine.

Excuse me I have shelves of books in my office from Trinitarians and they ALL use PERSONS and BEINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you ever been to a debate on the Godhead????

Every proposition I ever read have the Trinitarians affrimed 3 separate beings-persons-personalities in the God head.

[Steve Epley]

I do want to welcome all you Trinitarians to this forum I will happily discuss this subject with you since the majority on here are closet Trinitarians most the the discussion will be with myself. I state SHORT( I am short by the way) because folks have a tendancy not to read LONG posts. But you give a point and in time I will answer you point by point. I am not afraid of any question you may ask NONE of them are new. I have argued with the best and brightest on this subject so you do not intimidate me. Fire away. My style is pointed I mean no personal offence I do not hate you just your false doctrine that will ........ all who preach it and believe it.