All trinatarians are lost! - Page 12

1ofthechosen · #1 12-30-2018, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok, I understand Trinitarianism as well as many Trins.

Classic Trinitarianism:

IMO this is three God persons. They TRY not to be tritheists...but it doesn't work. From what I understand if one carries that belief to the grave they would not enter the kingdom.

And yet I hear Oneness people making statements like Jesus is no longer the son of God.

Even tho John says:

1 John 4:15

Whosover shall confess that Jesus IS the son of God God dwells in him and he in God.

If we say Jesus IS not the son of God how can we expect to enter Heaven?

No one ever said that Jesus is not the Son of God, but the office of the Son has been fulfilled. Big difference.

He's called the Son of God one time in Chapter 2 of the book of Revelation, and through the rest of the book He's called "pantokratōr" THE ALMIGHTY. The Son of God was born of the Holy Ghost to Mary Luke 1:35, and Galatians 4:4, but when He was glorified the office of the Son was fulfilled. Not that there was no Son or any of those things, because to come to the Father you have to come through the Son. But the purpose and the plan of the Son was fulfilled on Calvary's hill and His ressurection and Ascension when He came into the Tabernacle not made by man's hand, and the blood of His sacrifice was set before God. Hebrews 9:24-26 KJVS
"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures ae of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: [25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; [26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

Though the office of the Son is fulfilled, there's no way of Salvation outside the Son. His blood and sacrifice stands before God from now until the end of this present world.

hometown guy · #2 12-30-2018, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

No one ever said that Jesus is not the Son of God, but the office of the Son has been fulfilled. Big difference.

He's called the Son of God one time in Chapter 2 of the book of Revelation, and through the rest of the book He's called "pantokratōr" THE ALMIGHTY. The Son of God was born of the Holy Ghost to Mary Luke 1:35, and Galatians 4:4, but when He was glorified the office of the Son was fulfilled. Not that there was no Son or any of those things, because to come to the Father you have to come through the Son. But the purpose and the plan of the Son was fulfilled on Calvary's hill and His ressurection and Ascension when He came into the Tabernacle not made by man's hand, and the blood of His sacrifice was set before God. Hebrews 9:24-26 KJVS
"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures ae of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: [25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; [26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

Though the office of the Son is fulfilled, there's no way of Salvation outside the Son. His blood and sacrifice stands before God from now until the end of this present world.

Nicely put.

1ofthechosen · #3 12-30-2018, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Nicely put.

That's what MTD is talking about, in saying this I denied the Son. I didn't deny the Son, on the contrary I glorified, magnified, and exalted Him to His rightful position. Never could I deny the Son.

hometown guy · #4 12-30-2018, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

That's what MTD is talking about, in saying this I denied the Son. I didn't deny the Son, on the contrary I glorified, magnified, and exalted Him to His rightful position. Never could I deny the Son.

Ahhh I see... well in the book of revelation the sonship will be totally done with. The sonship was “ begotten “ and will have an ending.

Michael The Disciple · #5 01-01-2019, 05:04 AM

Quote:

No one ever said that Jesus is not the Son of God, but the office of the Son has been fulfilled. Big difference.

So just to be clear, is Jesus the son of God right now? Sounds like you are saying he became the Almighty and is no longer Gods son.

hometown guy · #6 01-01-2019, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So just to be clear, is Jesus the son of God right now? Sounds like you are saying he became the Almighty and is no longer Gods son.

I do not believe the sonship has been fulfilled because we still need his blood. I’m not scared to call him the son of God. He is the father and son at the same time just like he is the root and offspring of David.

1ofthechosen · #7 01-01-2019, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So just to be clear, is Jesus the son of God right now? Sounds like you are saying he became the Almighty and is no longer Gods son.

Jesus is the Son of God absolutely. But what the purpose of the Sonship was is to bring a perfect sacrifice. That sacrifice was brought, and that office has been fulfilled. And by that every point you just made Esaias is currently through that sacrifice. The image of the Invisible God. The Bible reveals He is currently the Almighty. Whatever Paul wrote earlier, John wrote something later and he was revealed something more in depth of Jesus.

All throughout the Book He stops being called the Son of God after Chapter 4 no reference to it, after that He's called the Almighty. Why because the Sonship has been fulfilled the blood of the Son stands as witness just as the blood over the door did in Egypt. Death, hell, and the grave have been defeated. Are people still going absolutely. But the Sonship conquered it already, at it's fullfilment. Is there a Son absolutely but the book of Revelation is foreshadowing what Paul spoke in 1 Corinthians 15 what he promised would come 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 KJVS:
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [24] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. [25] For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. [27] For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted which did put all things under him. [28] And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Now honestly I can see it as a foreshadowing of things that are going to happen in the Book of Revelation that He gave to John . The book is called the unveiling or the the revealing of Jesus Christ. So while this is something that is going to come to pass, God is in all time spans so it's already as it is in Heaven. I don't know the Words to put this in. But the Sonship has been full filled, but it doesn't mean while we are still where we are in time that He's ceased to be the Son. While at the Same time He presently is the Almighty in Heavenly places. There will be a time when no one will remember any of this and then God once again will be all in all.

Esaias · #8 01-01-2019, 11:24 AM

The "office of the son", or the "sonship", has NOT ended. Sonship involves the following:

1. Humanity. Jesus was raised immortal, therefore will never cease to be a resurrected immortal human being. Therefore His sonship continues.

2. Mediation. He is still Mediator.

3. Messiah kingship. He is still Christ (Messiah).

4. Priesthood. He abides a priest forever, thus Sonship continues, after the order of Melchizedek.

The office of Son continues.

Esaias · #9 01-01-2019, 11:18 PM

If the office of Son has ceased then He is no longer Son.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer our Mediator.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer Messiah.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer our High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Somebody show where the apostles explained "office of Son", how it is different than Jesus being the Son of God, and where and when this "office" will cease.

1ofthechosen · #10 01-04-2019, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

If the office of Son has ceased then He is no longer Son.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer our Mediator.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer Messiah.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer our High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Somebody show where the apostles explained "office of Son", how it is different than Jesus being the Son of God, and where and when this "office" will cease.

Not ceased been fulfilled. The Law was fulfilled doesnt mean that it ceased to exist.