Hair and Nature?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I won't use Strongs. Strongs is outdated. It's mostly a concordance not a comprehensive lexicon and it really only gives a list of how words are translated in the KJV.

Also it tends to lump everything under one heading. For example the Greek word for one. There are three genders and the gender can affect the meaning or use but Strongs does not really tell you that. It lumps them all under the masculine Heis. So people wrongly think every greek word is Heis for One

I remember this conversation. I don't see Strong's as a useless tool at all. After all the lengthy pontificating, Strong's usually, IMO, nutshells with the same information.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=225

Quote from RPD;
Prax, while it is true that the neuter hen generally means "one" in the sense of unity, as I would imagine you know, there are numerous places in the NT where it can also means "one" in person.

Romans 12:5 So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

The above verse will perhaps help illustrate what I am saying. Here is the exact parsing of the verse:

http://interlinearbible.org/romans/12-5.htm

As you will see, the first "one," as in "one body" is the neuter sing. "hen," while the second "one," as in "individually members 'ONE' of another" is the masc. sing. heis. And, it even contains the same plural verb (ἐσμεν/esmen) as in Jn. 10.30.

The "one" that appears in the independent clause could be taken to mean "one person" inasmuch as "one body" is never more "one person." Conversely, it could also be interpreted to mean "one in unity" due to "many members" clearly are not "one person." Here is where context will enter the picture to be the final judge.

However, the "one" that appears in the dependent clause is clearly talking about "one 'individual' person" (talk about demolishing the "multiple-divine-persons," or "Trinity".....the Masc. Sing. does it!).


Personally, due to context, I think Jesus intended one-person in Jn. 10.30 based upon the response of those standing on the spot. "You being a man are MAKING YOURSELF GOD."

There was something in the force of His usage of "one" which caused them understand His assertion as a statement of identity as not just "in unity" with the Father....But in reality "making yourself God."

28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”


He seems to be telling them, "I and the Father have the same Hand....We are 'ONE'." This is what incited the Jews extreme anger, whereas, IMO, a statement of "unity" would not have elicited their precise wording (esp. since the pious Pharisee's-Chief Priests made the same assertion all the time).

Just some random musings...........

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Shazeep, can you provide documentation for this article?

sorry--you got all i got there. would love to hear of any, ty

[Amanah]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_hair

Hair is one of the most important ways humans have of presenting themselves, being one of the parts of their body which is easiest to manipulate. Also, males having short, cut hair (or a shaven head) is often viewed as being under society's control, such as while in military service or prison or as punishment for a crime, while males having long hair signifies being outside of the mainstream.[19]

In Jewish and Christian scriptures[edit]

"She, as a veil down to the slender waist,
Her adorned golden tresses wore
Dishevelled, but in wanton ringlets waved,
As the vine curls her tendrils..."
— John Milton's description of Eve in Paradise Lost

In the Old Testament, the Nazirites would go for long periods of time without cutting their hair to show devotion to God.[20] Samson is one example; his strength depended upon his refraining from cutting his hair.[9] The New Testament says, "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering,"[21] something followed by women in some Apostolic Pentecostal denominations in some countries as an act of holiness.

Western culture[edit]

Ancient Greece and Rome[edit]

In ancient Greece, long male hair was a symbol of wealth and power, while a shaven head was appropriate for a slave. The ancient Greeks had several gods and heroes who wore their hair long, including Zeus, Achilles, Apollo, and Poseidon. Greek soldiers are said to have worn their hair long in battle. Such warriors considered it a sign of aristocracy and are said to have combed it openly in order to show off. Also, in order to keep enemies from getting a hold of it in battle, they were known to cut the front short, but leave it long in the back, where it was more out of reach. A widely held alternative interpretation of the conventional belief is that they kept it long, and simply tied it back in a style known as a ponytail in order to keep it out of their enemies' reach. The ponytail method allowed warriors, who often traveled to battle with a minimal amount of equipment in order to avoid excessively heavy loads over long marches, to keep their hair manageable with a small piece of string to hold their pony tail in place and a knife to cut the back to length with one simple slice. Around the sixth century, however, the Greek men shifted to shorter hairstyles, with the exception of the Spartans. Women in the culture remained with the longer style, which for them showed freedom, health, and wealth, as well as good behavior.[22] In men, it was considered a sign of false pride by this time.[23] Women in Roman times valued long hair, usually with a center part. Men's hair was usually shorter than women's, (but in the early times, the custom was quite the same as in Greece) although other cultures of the time, such as Greeks in the east, considered long hair to be typical of philosophers, who were thought to be too engrossed in learning to bother with hair.[24] Strictly in the province of Rome, however, the shorter hairstyle was especially popular.[23] When Julius Caesar conquered the Gauls, who favored long hair, he ordered it to be cut short.[25]

Middle Ages[edit]

In the European middle ages, shorter hair often signified servitude and peasantry, while long hair was often attributed to freemen, as was the case with the Germanic Goths and Merovingians.

The Gaelic Irish (both men and women)[26] took great pride in their long hair—for example, a person could be heavily fined for cutting a man's hair short against his will.[27] When the Anglo-Normans and the English colonized Ireland, hair length came to signify one's allegiance. Irishmen who cut their hair short were deemed to be forsaking their Irish heritage. Likewise, English colonists who wore their hair long in the back were deemed to be forsaking their role as English subjects and giving in to the Irish life. Thus, hair length was one of the most common ways of judging a true Englishman in this period. Muslims in Christian areas were ordered to keep their hair short and parted, as their longer style was considered rebellious and barbaric.[28]
A long hair fad was widespread among English and French men in the 11th and 12th centuries, though otherwise it was considered, mostly because of endorsement of the Roman Catholic Church, proper for men to have shorter, and women, longer hair. The fad was largely brought about by monarchs who rejected the shorter hairstyle, causing the people to follow. Wulfstan, a religious leader, worried that those with longer hair would fight like women, and be unable to protect England from foreign invasion. This idea can be found in later military leaders as well, such as those of the American Confederacy.[29] Knights and rulers would also sometimes cut or pull out their hair in order to show penitence and mourning, and a squire's hair was generally shorter than a knight's. Married women who let their hair flow out in public were frowned upon, as this was normally reserved for the unwed, although they were allowed to let it out in mourning, to show their distressed state. Through these centuries it was expected of Eastern Christians to wear long hair as well as long beards, which was especially expected from clergy and monks.
In England, during the English Civil Wars of 1642 to 1651, male hair length was emblematic of the disputes between Cavaliers and Roundheads (Puritans). Cavaliers wore longer hair, and were less religious-minded, thought of by the Roundheads as lecherous. The more devout Roundheads had short hair, although there were exceptions.[8]

Recent meanings among women[edit]

In most cultures, it is more typical for women to wear long hair than for men to do so. An American study shows significant correlation between hair length and age, which indicates that younger women tend to have longer hair than older women. A significant correlation was also found between women's hair length and hair quality, implying that women with poor or deteriorated hair quality tend to cut their hair shorter. Moreover, hair quality was correlated with the women's perceived physical health. Consistent with principles of evolutionary psychology, these results indicate that hair length and quality can act as a cue to a woman's youth and health, signifying reproductive potential. The correlation between the woman's hair length and marital status, or number of children, was however not more than to be expected from the correlation between hair length and age.[4]

Growing and wearing long hair was almost universal among women in the Western world until World War One.[13] Waist-length and longer female hair never ceased in western culture, and was frequent especially around 1970 and 1990. Long hair can be worn loose, braided, in a ponytail or up in an updo. Screen actresses and models known for having long hair have included Amanda Seyfried, Angelina Jolie, Blake Lively, Brigitte Bardot, Christie Brinkley, Danica McKellar, Danielle Chuchran, Daryl Hannah, Gwyneth Paltrow, Jane Seymour, Jerry Hall, Marcy Walker, Maureen McCormick, Megan Fox, Molly Sims, Monica Bellucci, Naomi Watts, Paulina Porizkova, Robin Wright and Sophie Marceau. Singers and musicians known for their below-waist-length hair include Crystal Gayle, Ruslana, Sarah Brightman and Yungchen Lhamo.

Recent meanings among men[edit]

Before World War One men generally had longer hair and beards. However, short hair on men has often been enforced as a mean of control, in police, military and other forces that require obedience and discipline. Slaves and defeated armies were often required to shave their heads. The trench warfare in 1914 to 1918 exposed men to flea and lice infestations, which prompted the order to cut short hair, establishing a norm that has persisted.[13]
Beat poets during the 1950s wore longer hairstyles, as did many of the urban gay culture, although long hair was far from popular. By 1960, a small "beatnik" community in Newquay, Cornwall, England (including a young Wizz Jones) had attracted the attention and the abhorrence of their neighbors for growing their hair to a length past the shoulders, resulting in a television interview with Alan Whicker on BBC television's Tonight series.[30] The 1960s also introduced The Beatles, who started a more widespread longer hair trend. The social revolution of the 1960s led to a renaissance of unchecked hair growth,[13] and long hair, especially on men, was worn as a political or countercultural symbol or protest. This cultural symbol extended to several Western countries in the Americas, Western Europe, South Africa, and Australia.[31] Specific long hairstyles such as dreadlocks have been part of counterculture movements seeking to define other alternative cultures and lifestyles since this time.[11] Longer hair in general remained popular among the youth rebellion throughout the liberal decade of the 1960s.[31] Some people saw the long hair trend, as it grew with the spread of the hippie movement in the 1960s,[31] as a threat to gender identity (a common complaint was "you can't tell the girls from the boys"), as well as cultural and religious norms. However, in the 1970s, longer hair styles would become the norm among men and women.

In the 1970s, the popularity of Jamaica's reggae music and musician Bob Marley prompted interest in dreadlocks internationally. The anti-establishment philosophy of Rastafari, echoed in much of the reggae of the time, resonated with leaning youth of all ethnicities — especially and primarily among African Americans and other Blacks, but among counterculture whites as well.[32] Eastern Christians are encouraged to wear long hair with long beard. In the 1980s the view of long hair as a solitary signifier of political or counter-cultural identity was countered and parodied in films such as Rambo and many other militaristic heroes of media which challenged then-contemporary views of what was masculine.[33] Today, longer hairstyles among men, while not as common or popular as in the 1970s, are nonetheless not uncommon, and are still quite popular among neopagans and rock enthusiasts.[34] Long hair may be grown for the purpose of being donated to an organization, such as Locks of Love, for hairpieces to help those who could not have hair otherwise, such as those who are diagnosed with alopecia areata.

[justlookin]

Originally Posted by justlookin

I think it's subjective.

I've found that men who let their hair grow long (whatever long is) never 'fixes' it, it's long and it's flowing freely. On the other hand, women with long hair (whatever long is) will many times style their hair so that it's really no longer, in appearance, than women who have shorter (whatever shorter is) hair. For example, both women will expose the neck in their hair styles. So, what's the difference between the woman who has longish (whatever longish is) hair that is above the shoulders and the woman who styles her hair, though it be longer (whatever long is) so that it's appearance is the same as the woman with the shorter hair?

Here's a couple of examples, one with hair longer than the other but visually about the same.





In my subjective view, the woman's hair in the top image is more appealing. Is that nature telling me, instructing me, or is that just visually a personal preference? And would the bottom hair length be long on a man?

Back to the question of how short is short and how long is long. Or maybe the question should be what is short and what is long?

Originally Posted by justlookin

What conclusion would you come to when you apply the definition you posted in the first post to the photos above? In other words, which photo is showing God's design?

We then can take the answer and apply it to these photos.

BUMP.

[Abiding Now]

I'm convinced! No long hair for me.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Amanah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_hair

Hair is one of the most important ways humans have of presenting themselves, being one of the parts of their body which is easiest to manipulate. Also, males having short, cut hair (or a shaven head) is often viewed as being under society's control, such as while in military service or prison or as punishment for a crime, while males having long hair signifies being outside of the mainstream.[19]

In Jewish and Christian scriptures[edit]

"She, as a veil down to the slender waist,
Her adorned golden tresses wore
Dishevelled, but in wanton ringlets waved,
As the vine curls her tendrils..."
— John Milton's description of Eve in Paradise Lost

In the Old Testament, the Nazirites would go for long periods of time without cutting their hair to show devotion to God.[20] Samson is one example; his strength depended upon his refraining from cutting his hair.[9] The New Testament says, "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering,"[21] something followed by women in some Apostolic Pentecostal denominations in some countries as an act of holiness.

Western culture[edit]

Ancient Greece and Rome[edit]

In ancient Greece, long male hair was a symbol of wealth and power, while a shaven head was appropriate for a slave. The ancient Greeks had several gods and heroes who wore their hair long, including Zeus, Achilles, Apollo, and Poseidon. Greek soldiers are said to have worn their hair long in battle. Such warriors considered it a sign of aristocracy and are said to have combed it openly in order to show off. Also, in order to keep enemies from getting a hold of it in battle, they were known to cut the front short, but leave it long in the back, where it was more out of reach. A widely held alternative interpretation of the conventional belief is that they kept it long, and simply tied it back in a style known as a ponytail in order to keep it out of their enemies' reach. The ponytail method allowed warriors, who often traveled to battle with a minimal amount of equipment in order to avoid excessively heavy loads over long marches, to keep their hair manageable with a small piece of string to hold their pony tail in place and a knife to cut the back to length with one simple slice. Around the sixth century, however, the Greek men shifted to shorter hairstyles, with the exception of the Spartans. Women in the culture remained with the longer style, which for them showed freedom, health, and wealth, as well as good behavior.[22] In men, it was considered a sign of false pride by this time.[23] Women in Roman times valued long hair, usually with a center part. Men's hair was usually shorter than women's, (but in the early times, the custom was quite the same as in Greece) although other cultures of the time, such as Greeks in the east, considered long hair to be typical of philosophers, who were thought to be too engrossed in learning to bother with hair.[24] Strictly in the province of Rome, however, the shorter hairstyle was especially popular.[23] When Julius Caesar conquered the Gauls, who favored long hair, he ordered it to be cut short.[25]

Middle Ages[edit]

In the European middle ages, shorter hair often signified servitude and peasantry, while long hair was often attributed to freemen, as was the case with the Germanic Goths and Merovingians.

The Gaelic Irish (both men and women)[26] took great pride in their long hair—for example, a person could be heavily fined for cutting a man's hair short against his will.[27] When the Anglo-Normans and the English colonized Ireland, hair length came to signify one's allegiance. Irishmen who cut their hair short were deemed to be forsaking their Irish heritage. Likewise, English colonists who wore their hair long in the back were deemed to be forsaking their role as English subjects and giving in to the Irish life. Thus, hair length was one of the most common ways of judging a true Englishman in this period. Muslims in Christian areas were ordered to keep their hair short and parted, as their longer style was considered rebellious and barbaric.[28]
A long hair fad was widespread among English and French men in the 11th and 12th centuries, though otherwise it was considered, mostly because of endorsement of the Roman Catholic Church, proper for men to have shorter, and women, longer hair. The fad was largely brought about by monarchs who rejected the shorter hairstyle, causing the people to follow. Wulfstan, a religious leader, worried that those with longer hair would fight like women, and be unable to protect England from foreign invasion. This idea can be found in later military leaders as well, such as those of the American Confederacy.[29] Knights and rulers would also sometimes cut or pull out their hair in order to show penitence and mourning, and a squire's hair was generally shorter than a knight's. Married women who let their hair flow out in public were frowned upon, as this was normally reserved for the unwed, although they were allowed to let it out in mourning, to show their distressed state. Through these centuries it was expected of Eastern Christians to wear long hair as well as long beards, which was especially expected from clergy and monks.
In England, during the English Civil Wars of 1642 to 1651, male hair length was emblematic of the disputes between Cavaliers and Roundheads (Puritans). Cavaliers wore longer hair, and were less religious-minded, thought of by the Roundheads as lecherous. The more devout Roundheads had short hair, although there were exceptions.[8]

Recent meanings among women[edit]

In most cultures, it is more typical for women to wear long hair than for men to do so. An American study shows significant correlation between hair length and age, which indicates that younger women tend to have longer hair than older women. A significant correlation was also found between women's hair length and hair quality, implying that women with poor or deteriorated hair quality tend to cut their hair shorter. Moreover, hair quality was correlated with the women's perceived physical health. Consistent with principles of evolutionary psychology, these results indicate that hair length and quality can act as a cue to a woman's youth and health, signifying reproductive potential. The correlation between the woman's hair length and marital status, or number of children, was however not more than to be expected from the correlation between hair length and age.[4]

Growing and wearing long hair was almost universal among women in the Western world until World War One.[13] Waist-length and longer female hair never ceased in western culture, and was frequent especially around 1970 and 1990. Long hair can be worn loose, braided, in a ponytail or up in an updo. Screen actresses and models known for having long hair have included Amanda Seyfried, Angelina Jolie, Blake Lively, Brigitte Bardot, Christie Brinkley, Danica McKellar, Danielle Chuchran, Daryl Hannah, Gwyneth Paltrow, Jane Seymour, Jerry Hall, Marcy Walker, Maureen McCormick, Megan Fox, Molly Sims, Monica Bellucci, Naomi Watts, Paulina Porizkova, Robin Wright and Sophie Marceau. Singers and musicians known for their below-waist-length hair include Crystal Gayle, Ruslana, Sarah Brightman and Yungchen Lhamo.

Recent meanings among men[edit]

Before World War One men generally had longer hair and beards. However, short hair on men has often been enforced as a mean of control, in police, military and other forces that require obedience and discipline. Slaves and defeated armies were often required to shave their heads. The trench warfare in 1914 to 1918 exposed men to flea and lice infestations, which prompted the order to cut short hair, establishing a norm that has persisted.[13]
Beat poets during the 1950s wore longer hairstyles, as did many of the urban gay culture, although long hair was far from popular. By 1960, a small "beatnik" community in Newquay, Cornwall, England (including a young Wizz Jones) had attracted the attention and the abhorrence of their neighbors for growing their hair to a length past the shoulders, resulting in a television interview with Alan Whicker on BBC television's Tonight series.[30] The 1960s also introduced The Beatles, who started a more widespread longer hair trend. The social revolution of the 1960s led to a renaissance of unchecked hair growth,[13] and long hair, especially on men, was worn as a political or countercultural symbol or protest. This cultural symbol extended to several Western countries in the Americas, Western Europe, South Africa, and Australia.[31] Specific long hairstyles such as dreadlocks have been part of counterculture movements seeking to define other alternative cultures and lifestyles since this time.[11] Longer hair in general remained popular among the youth rebellion throughout the liberal decade of the 1960s.[31] Some people saw the long hair trend, as it grew with the spread of the hippie movement in the 1960s,[31] as a threat to gender identity (a common complaint was "you can't tell the girls from the boys"), as well as cultural and religious norms. However, in the 1970s, longer hair styles would become the norm among men and women.

In the 1970s, the popularity of Jamaica's reggae music and musician Bob Marley prompted interest in dreadlocks internationally. The anti-establishment philosophy of Rastafari, echoed in much of the reggae of the time, resonated with leaning youth of all ethnicities — especially and primarily among African Americans and other Blacks, but among counterculture whites as well.[32] Eastern Christians are encouraged to wear long hair with long beard. In the 1980s the view of long hair as a solitary signifier of political or counter-cultural identity was countered and parodied in films such as Rambo and many other militaristic heroes of media which challenged then-contemporary views of what was masculine.[33] Today, longer hairstyles among men, while not as common or popular as in the 1970s, are nonetheless not uncommon, and are still quite popular among neopagans and rock enthusiasts.[34] Long hair may be grown for the purpose of being donated to an organization, such as Locks of Love, for hairpieces to help those who could not have hair otherwise, such as those who are diagnosed with alopecia areata.

nice! ty.

[justlookin]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

I'm convinced! No long hair for me.

Who, in the photos above, has long hair?

[shazeep]

yup, that is the question. that may only be answered in context, imo.

but how 'bout taking all this Scriptural advice for hair length + the Bible's typical dearth of details for, in this case, what exactly long hair even is + Sampson/Nazarite vow/superhuman power - Paul Nazarite vow = grieving the Holy Spirit? what conclusions about a believer's most basic theological tenets can be drawn from this?

many would obviously lose trust and fall away at what seems to be at least a couple of unsolvable dichotomies when all of these are taken together, and added to the many others; but again i ask what conclusions must a believer come to here?

Any R out there might 'prove' that long hair on men = verboten, while having Sampson tossed back in retort to disprove the 'proof;' he may then riposte with 'Paul!' in some NT, new dispensational doctrine mooting Nazarites--however, at least one of the Apostles was a Nazarite (i forget which)...did that Apostle have long hair?

pretty obviously, Paul's attempt to become a Nazarite was based upon flawed thinking, and presented for us to show that Christ superseded the Nazarite vow.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...all New Covenant believers serve God as perpetual Nazirites who are not defiled by death for our Savior has conquered death. In our vow of holiness we offer our lives as a living sacrifice in service to Christ: "I urge you, then, brothers, remembering the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, dedicated and acceptable to God; that is the kind of worship for you, as sensible people. Do not model your behavior on the contemporary world, but let the renewing of your minds transform you, so that you may discern for yourselves what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and mature." Romans 12:1-2

Michal Hunt, Copyright © 2006 Agape Bible Study. Permissions All Rights Reserved.

[KeptByTheWord]

If "power" equaled the length of hair... what a terrible, terrible sick thing this would mean to a believer.

No... the only power in the world that truly brings glory, is the covering of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the perfect covering, his blood shed for our sins, that brings the only power that I want to have covering me.

Any other "power" is no doubt from the enemy himself, as we know certain powers are allotted to him. Let us not trust in any other "power" whether from hair, or dress, or .....etc., but let us trust in the power of Jesus Christ to transform our hearts with His love, and blood shed at Calvary.

[shazeep]

i've always secretly held that the story of Sampson the Nazarite having so much power in his long hair--which is easily called a signature of Nazarites--was manifested due due the power that the Nazarite belief system as a whole rose to, and thus Sampson becomes a type, and it shouldn't be overlooked that Sampson lived a raucous life, and died a violent death. this must also be a commentary on the Nazarites as a whole. Sampson was violent