Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm. i started out just like Luke, Christianity with a jacket. Free your mind, and the rest will follow, imo. You must become heretical to the 'established church'--and by that i mean those with authority in worldly eyes, not the true church, the people--in order to find Christ. Sadducees can only describe Him to you.

You have not found Christ you have made Him one of many ways when He said that he is the only way. Wht you found was the tired old falsehood of universalism.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

You have not found Christ you have made Him one of many ways when He said that he is the only way. Wht you found was the tired old falsehood of universalism.

perhaps--but i will trust that the Spirit will correct me. I do not doubt your desire to find a better conception of Christ, i hope you understand; i do suspect (and condemn) your model. heck, even Eastern Christianity does. Even Ortho does--so we are all in disagreement then, on the semantics. perfect. Just what satan wants. @ 'Universalism,' i don't know; but i do know that all have sinned, and come short. While you might surely be ahead of me in some regards, spiritually, i merely mean to point out the (inevitable) corruption that will accompany any human model--even the model that introduced me to the concept of Christ; if not the Savior. If it works for you, and produces fruit, and the other indicators are where you want them to be--borders increasing, etc--then i would not dream of changing that. Perhaps not a jacket for you, but a blanket. Nothing wrong with that.

i believe that Christ is the only way. Luke--i just do not believe that we have exclusively defined Him, for mass consumption. Your model, wadr, requires that i accept your version of Christ; when i don't even accept my version in perpetuity. My relationship with Christ took a big jump a couple years ago, and i expect it to happen again. i pray the same for you. You have a great spirit!

[Luke]

Shazeep I am curious about one thing. If you believe that there are many roads to heaven do you also believe that the holy book of these other ways are also equal to the Bible?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

Shazeep I am curious about one thing. If you believe that there are many roads to heaven do you also believe that the holy book of these other ways are also equal to the Bible?

Luke, i think the followers of those Books are the "When did we see you thirsty?" crowd. There is obviously only one road to heaven, that 9/10ths of the Law thing, "Love your neighbor," that i am sure can be translated into any language. If they are not against us, then they are for us. i personally would be able to tell immediately, when they are not pointing at me and accusing me of being a Christian.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Luke, i think the followers of those Books are the "When did we see you thirsty?" crowd. There is obviously only one road to heaven, that 9/10ths of the Law thing, "Love your neighbor," that i am sure can be translated into any language. If they are not against us, then they are for us. i personally would be able to tell immediately, when they are not pointing at me and accusing me of being a Christian.

We should love our neighbor but this is never set forth as a means to heaven.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

We should love our neighbor but this is never set forth as a means to heaven.

well, i just told that to the guy who said "when did we see you thirsty?" and he said, "ok."

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i just told that to the guy who said "when did we see you thirsty?" and he said, "ok."

They were figurative unless you are talking about Jesus.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

We should love our neighbor but this is never set forth as a means to heaven.

Um, what? 9/10ths of the Law? The Separation Parable? Luke, you have to be kidding me. Love your neighbor is the only way to heaven.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Um, what? 9/10ths of the Law? The Separation Parable? Luke, you have to be kidding me. Love your neighbor is the only way to heaven.

Ah so you are literaly what those who stand for standards of righteousness and holiness are wrongly accused of being. You are a legalist one who seeks to be saved by keeping the law.


Lukem 28:46 and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 not of works, lest any man should boast.


Colossians 1:14
in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


1 Peter 1:18 forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

[shazeep]

(a little trap there fa ya, Luke...)