DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

[DAII]

Deut's posting is a prime example of the spawn of the spirit of disfellowip.

They feed on differences, badge wearing and minutiae

[rgcraig]

Pick and choose -- surely, you really don't want to go there now do you?

[Jeffrey]

Bump for Deut.

Will you try and post a photo of yourself in a pair of women's pants?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Bump for Deut.

Will you try and post a photo of yourself in a pair of women's pants?

LOL!!!

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Bump for Deut.

Will you try and post a photo of yourself in a pair of women's pants?

It's that easy to refute ...

Go to Macy's and find yourself some female pants in the female section and wear them.

Share the pic, Deuty.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8

Well I guess we would have to look at Moses for this answer. Or Paul.....or Peter. Your argument is only Valid to a certain extent. Why bother going to church if the pastor doesnt carry any discretion.

They murmured against Moses as well. So now what. Hey you have ALL the ANSWERS.....You dont need a preacher! You know the BIBLE. YOU know what you believe. Theres no need for church or the ministry....Correct???

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8

Why do you go?

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8

But NOT for answers? Interesting. So they should just READ the word and you take it for what you want??

Strangely, within these statements lies a pretty interesting thought.

Go back to Acts and find every instance that one of the disciples went to church to get answers. Even go to Corinthians if you want. At least once (when the young man fell out the window) someone spoke. But it does not say they gathered to hear the word preached. Why did the NT church gather most often? They gathered for prayer and fellowship and breaking of bread. Not to get answers. They had the answer. His name is Jesus.

[freeatlast]

DuetCh8: take a minute and read the words penned by a few ver scholarly men concerning Dt 22:5

there is no way this verse means what you propose it mean...and it IS the hallmark verse of the entire apostolic identy crowd.

It is the ONLY verse that, misinterpreted, is found in the entire old and New testament to stand upon when you command a women not wear a split legged article of clothing-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I. What do the words actually say in the Hebrew language according to the scholars? The first phrase - The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man.


A. The first phrase, that which pertaineth - the phrase that which pertaineth is represented in the Hebrew by one word, the word keli, and it most generally means a manufactured article. It is most often translated as some sort of weapon or armor.


1. Scholarly references for the word keli: Strongs: 3627 kee-lee" something prepared, i.e. any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): --armour [bearer], artillery, bag, carriage + furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon (emphasis Strong's) whatsoever.


2. Gesenius (Hebrew words and most references used by the author deleted) properly whatever is made, completed, or prepared...(1) any utensil, vessel. Gen 31:37; 45:20. vessels of gold, of silver, the vessels of the temple, vessels of wandering, outfit for exile. (2)clothing,* ornaments of a bride, also for yokes for oxen. (3) a vessel for sailing. (4.) an implement, a tool, musical instruments, instruments of the indignation of Jehovah (5) arms, weapons Ben. 27:3 ; Jud 18:11,16. more fully, deadly weapons Psalm 7:14. , an armour-bearer 1 Sam.14:1, 6, 7, 31:4,5,6 an armoury Isa 39:2.


3. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: 982g vessel, utensil, The basic idea of this root is "to bring a process to completion." The root occurs in all its forms 237 times. Of these 206 are verbal....The idea of being consumed is most commonly applied to violent destruction, often by war...


4. Wigrams, The New Englishman's Hebrew/Aramaic Concordance: k'lee Translated 45 times as armour, or weapons. Most other times as instrument, jewel, furniture, vessels, etc., but never, *not even in Deut 22:5 is it translated clothing.

Conclusion: The word keli most often means a manufactured item, quite often a weapon, or armor. *It is never, except in Deuteronomy 22:5, translated “that which pertaineth,” “clothing,” or “garment.”


B. The phrase translated unto a man is also represented in the Hebrew language by a single word - gibbor.


1. Scholarly references for the word gibbor -- Strong's, 1368 gibbor, ghib-bore; from 1397 geber gheh'ber, a valiant man or warrior, powerful: by implication warrior, tyrant: --champion, chief, excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one) strong (man), valiant man.


2. Gesenius 1368 author’s references and Hebrew words omitted (1) strong, mighty, impetuous, used of a hunter, commonly of an impetuous soldier, a hero, a mighty king (Alexander the Great), a mighty hero. [The mighty God: Christ is spoken of] these are the heroes, those who were famous of old; the lion is a hero among the beasts; also used of a soldier generally, a mighty warrior, Used of God, Jehovah (is) strong and mighty, Jehovah (is) mighty in battle....(2) a chief, a military leader, the commander of soldiers and the soldier. Used generally of a chief. (3) in a bad sense, proud, a tyrant, like the Arab.


3. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: 310 (condensed) (ga bar) prevail, be mighty, have strength, be great. Derivatives, man, mighty man. might. lady, queen. .... The Hebrew root is commonly associated with warfare and has to do with the strength and vitality of the successful warrior....(RSV often translates "warrior") The heroes or champions among the armed forces.


4. Wigrams, p. 289, 290, translated mighty men, mighty one, mighty hunter, mighty, mighty man, mighty men, strong, valiant men, mightiest, mighty of valour, strong man, giant, as a strong man, the Mighty God, the mighty. The only instance it is translated as man is in Du 22:5. Not so translated in any other place.


Conclusion: the word gibbor does not refer to every ordinary man. It refers to a distinct type of man, amighty man, most likely a military man or soldier which matches nicely with the word keli which most often means armour. By this interpretation the scripture speaks against the idolatrous practice of either enticing or frightening demons, something which would, indeed, be an abomination unto the LORD!

[freeatlast]

Will McLeod: This not from the source you mentioned. I'll opost it again.

I do believe that "the man" refered to in Dt. 22:5 properly interpreted was refering to a warrior /soldier , one who wore the clothing and armament of a soldier.

Originally Posted by freeatlast

DuetCh8: take a minute and read the words penned by a few ver scholarly men concerning Dt 22:5

there is no way this verse means what you propose it mean...and it IS the hallmark verse of the entire apostolic identy crowd.

It is the ONLY verse that, misinterpreted, is found in the entire old and New testament to stand upon when you command a women not wear a split legged article of clothing-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I. What do the words actually say in the Hebrew language according to the scholars? The first phrase - The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man.


A. The first phrase, that which pertaineth - the phrase that which pertaineth is represented in the Hebrew by one word, the word keli, and it most generally means a manufactured article. It is most often translated as some sort of weapon or armor.


1. Scholarly references for the word keli: Strongs: 3627 kee-lee" something prepared, i.e. any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): --armour [bearer], artillery, bag, carriage + furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon (emphasis Strong's) whatsoever.


2. Gesenius (Hebrew words and most references used by the author deleted) properly whatever is made, completed, or prepared...(1) any utensil, vessel. Gen 31:37; 45:20. vessels of gold, of silver, the vessels of the temple, vessels of wandering, outfit for exile. (2)clothing,* ornaments of a bride, also for yokes for oxen. (3) a vessel for sailing. (4.) an implement, a tool, musical instruments, instruments of the indignation of Jehovah (5) arms, weapons Ben. 27:3 ; Jud 18:11,16. more fully, deadly weapons Psalm 7:14. , an armour-bearer 1 Sam.14:1, 6, 7, 31:4,5,6 an armoury Isa 39:2.


3. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: 982g vessel, utensil, The basic idea of this root is "to bring a process to completion." The root occurs in all its forms 237 times. Of these 206 are verbal....The idea of being consumed is most commonly applied to violent destruction, often by war...


4. Wigrams, The New Englishman's Hebrew/Aramaic Concordance: k'lee Translated 45 times as armour, or weapons. Most other times as instrument, jewel, furniture, vessels, etc., but never, *not even in Deut 22:5 is it translated clothing.

Conclusion: The word keli most often means a manufactured item, quite often a weapon, or armor. *It is never, except in Deuteronomy 22:5, translated “that which pertaineth,” “clothing,” or “garment.”


B. The phrase translated unto a man is also represented in the Hebrew language by a single word - gibbor.


1. Scholarly references for the word gibbor -- Strong's, 1368 gibbor, ghib-bore; from 1397 geber gheh'ber, a valiant man or warrior, powerful: by implication warrior, tyrant: --champion, chief, excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one) strong (man), valiant man.


2. Gesenius 1368 author’s references and Hebrew words omitted (1) strong, mighty, impetuous, used of a hunter, commonly of an impetuous soldier, a hero, a mighty king (Alexander the Great), a mighty hero. [The mighty God: Christ is spoken of] these are the heroes, those who were famous of old; the lion is a hero among the beasts; also used of a soldier generally, a mighty warrior, Used of God, Jehovah (is) strong and mighty, Jehovah (is) mighty in battle....(2) a chief, a military leader, the commander of soldiers and the soldier. Used generally of a chief. (3) in a bad sense, proud, a tyrant, like the Arab.


3. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: 310 (condensed) (ga bar) prevail, be mighty, have strength, be great. Derivatives, man, mighty man. might. lady, queen. .... The Hebrew root is commonly associated with warfare and has to do with the strength and vitality of the successful warrior....(RSV often translates "warrior") The heroes or champions among the armed forces.


4. Wigrams, p. 289, 290, translated mighty men, mighty one, mighty hunter, mighty, mighty man, mighty men, strong, valiant men, mightiest, mighty of valour, strong man, giant, as a strong man, the Mighty God, the mighty. The only instance it is translated as man is in Du 22:5. Not so translated in any other place.


Conclusion: the word gibbor does not refer to every ordinary man. It refers to a distinct type of man, amighty man, most likely a military man or soldier which matches nicely with the word keli which most often means armour. By this interpretation the scripture speaks against the idolatrous practice of either enticing or frightening demons, something which would, indeed, be an abomination unto the LORD!

[rgcraig]

Deut - found this for you!

Origin of Words - "Pants"

Most often words of one syllable have Anglo-Saxon roots but occasionally one slips into English from the classics. One such is the word pants. Everyone knows the meaning of this word so why do I offer it to you here? It travelled a very interesting route to find its way to mean trousers or slacks.

William Safire cleverly explained this route in a N Y Times article in the Sunday Magazine section. I regret I do not have the date it was published.

In his article he explains that a Christian doctor was condemned to death by the Romans in the 3rd century for aiding the poor. He was to be beheaded but survived the six attempts to take his life. Later the Church canonized him, giving him the name "Saint Pantaleone". "Pan" is Greek for "all' and "leo" is the Latin word for "lion". He was given this title to recognize his strength and courage. In time he became the patron saint of physicians. Looking for such courage and strength in their sons, numerous boys were christened with his name.

Where did "pants" come into this picture? In ca. 800, in comic drama according to Robert Hendrickson in his book " Facts on File, An Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins", the fool in a comic production was called panteleon...all lion. In time this changed to "pantaloon". The actor was dressed in breeches that were tight below the knee but which bloused out in a full puffy fashion from the waist to the knee.

In the 18th century the costume became one worn by many men. This famous portrait found in the Louvre shows Louis XIV in a full pose, showing off his legs in a ''pantaloon'' costume. The term was shortened to "pants" in the 1840s. The term pantaloons continued to be used when referring to the undergarment worn by women under hoop skirts in the same period.

http://www.dl.ket.org/latin3/vocab/e...tory/pants.htm

[Jeffrey]

Justin, either way it shows that these so-called "revelations" are not ancient, nor even that old, but fairly new. I think that's their value.