A Crumbling UPC 'Fesses Up, AI is not working

[Chateau d'If]

I recently watched a webcast, called "HM Live," over on the upci.org wesbsite. The webcast consisted of Carlton Coon, who is the UPCI general Home Missions Director, interviewing David Bernard, the General Superintendent of the UPCI.

As I watched, and listened, my jaw hit the floor. It is very evident that the UPCI knows that the Apostolic Identity campaign has been a complete failure.


Coon: You know I was talking to…Brother Hanscom and I…who is our Director of Multicultural Ministries, were talking yesterday about one of our Korean pastors who is a wonderful man…but his observation was that every time he begins teaching lifestyle change to his new converts, they’re gone. Well, my response to Brother Hanscom was that it’s taking a long time… to bring people to where they’re good stewards of life, and where they’re and where…they’re living things we feel to be important to Apostolic Identity. And some of it, I think, is our expectations of there being a quick fix….but conversion doesn’t give people all of the principles of life that they need.

Bernard: Right.

And that forces us…the solution is to be very biblical…

Coon: Right:

Bernard: As a home missionary I had to be very biblical. I’m asking major life changes. I’m asking for a new convert that’s in a live-in relationship to move out of that relationship. That’s a huge thing. And in our culture, the question is “why? Why should I have to do that?”

So, therefore, since I know I am going to be making lots of demands, in a sense, through preaching, and teaching, and love, and counsel…I don’t want to add anything that’s really more cultural than biblical. I have enough on my hands that’s biblical without having to put my cultural, or even personal, expectations. So, a lot of things I delay. A lot of things I don’t even deal with. And, I think your appeal…when it goes more to the Bible…that’s your best chance of that convert changing their way of life.

Coon: I know when I taught our new converts class that was our basis of operation. And when we got beyond scripture…to things that maybe would be my preference…people would begin to ask, “well, now, everything else has been Bible-based…why is this suddenly important and it’s not Bible-based?”

[Chateau d'If]

Here is the link to the full webcast.

http://www.homemissionsdivision.com/hmlive/

[Chateau d'If]

Coon: "You know I was talking to…Brother Hanscom and I…who is our Director of Multicultural Ministries, were talking yesterday about one of our Korean pastors who is a wonderful man…but his observation was that every time he begins teaching lifestyle change to his new converts, they’re gone. Well, my response to Brother Hanscom was that it’s taking a long time… to bring people to where they’re good stewards of life, and where they’re living things we feel to be important to Apostolic Identity. And some of it, I think, is our expectations of there being a quick fix….but conversion doesn’t give people all of the principles of life that they need."

[Chateau d'If]

Bernard: "So, therefore, since I know I am going to be making lots of demands, in a sense, through preaching, and teaching, and love, and counsel…I don’t want to add anything that’s really more cultural than biblical. I have enough on my hands that’s biblical without having to put my cultural, or even personal, expectations. So, a lot of things I delay. A lot of things I don’t even deal with. And, I think your appeal…when it goes more to the Bible…that’s your best chance of that convert changing their way of life."

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

Bernard: "So, therefore, since I know I am going to be making lots of demands, in a sense, through preaching, and teaching, and love, and counsel…I don’t want to add anything that’s really more cultural than biblical. I have enough on my hands that’s biblical without having to put my cultural, or even personal, expectations. So, a lot of things I delay. A lot of things I don’t even deal with. And, I think your appeal…when it goes more to the Bible…that’s your best chance of that convert changing their way of life."

This is more than shocking. DKB has been a very vocal proponent of Apostolic Identity. In fact, he coined the term Apostolic Identity. As South Texas District Superintendent, he pushed to exclude or remove any pastor who did not comply with the basic tenants of Apostolic Identity.

Now DKB admits he delayed teaching AI to his new converts and, in some cases, refused to teach it at all?

Amazing!

I find this admission very frustrating, because many UPCI Home Missionaries have been struggling to "line up" to the extra-biblical expectations of Apostolic Identity for years. They, unlike DKB, did not delay teaching it because they were pressured to teach it. This pressure was applied at every national and statewide conference in America over the past five years.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

This is more than shocking. DKB has been a very vocal proponent of Apostolic Identity. In fact, he coined the term Apostolic Identity. As South Texas District Superintendent, he pushed to exclude or remove any pastor who did not comply with the basic tenants of Apostolic Identity.

Now DKB admits he delayed teaching AI to his new converts and, in some cases, refused to teach it at all?

Amazing!

I find this admission very frustrating, because many UPCI Home Missionaries have been struggling to "line up" to the extra-biblical expectations of Apostolic Identity for years. They, unlike DKB, did not delay teaching it because they were pressured to teach it. This pressure was applied at ever national and statewide conference in America over the past five years.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

Nuff said.

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

This is more than shocking. DKB has been a very vocal proponent of Apostolic Identity. In fact, he coined the term Apostolic Identity. As South Texas District Superintendent, he pushed to exclude or remove any pastor who did not comply with the basic tenants of Apostolic Identity.

Now DKB admits he delayed teaching AI to his new converts and, in some cases, refused to teach it at all?

I find this admission very frustrating, because many UPCI Home Missionaries have been struggling to "line up" to the extra-biblical expectations of Apostolic Identity for years. They, unlike DKB, did not delay teaching it because they were pressured to teach it. This pressure was applied at ever national and statewide conference in America over the past five years.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

So, what do we say to the Home Missionary pastor who has lost dozens of precious souls because he did teach Apostolic Identity, without delay?

What do we say to the Home Missionary who eventually gave up because, just like the Korean pastor, every time he preached it, he lost an entire congregation?

What does this say about the integrity of leadership within the United Pentecostal Church? You delay teaching what you really believe, because you're afraid of the consequences? You refuse to teach what you really believe because you are afraid new converts will leave?

What if every UPCI pastor took the same approach DKB admitted to? How long until the UPCI looked radically different than it does right now?

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

So, what do we say to the Home Missionary pastor who has lost dozens of precious souls because he did teach Apostolic Identity, without delay?

What do we say to the Home Missionary who eventually gave up because, just like the Korean pastor, every time he preached it, he lost an entire congregation?

What does this say about the integrity of leadership within the United Pentecostal Church? You delay teaching what you really believe, because you're afraid of the consequences? You refuse to teach what you really believe because you are afraid new converts will leave?

What if every UPCI pastor took the same approach DKB admitted to? How long until the UPCI looked radically different than it does right now?

Further, has DKB violated the Affirmation Statement? Is he now a liar? After all, by signing the AS he pledged to believe, embrace and teach Apostolic Identity.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

This is more than shocking. DKB has been a very vocal proponent of Apostolic Identity. In fact, he coined the term Apostolic Identity. As South Texas District Superintendent, he pushed to exclude or remove any pastor who did not comply with the basic tenants of Apostolic Identity.

Now DKB admits he delayed teaching AI to his new converts and, in some cases, refused to teach it at all?

Amazing!

I find this admission very frustrating, because many UPCI Home Missionaries have been struggling to "line up" to the extra-biblical expectations of Apostolic Identity for years. They, unlike DKB, did not delay teaching it because they were pressured to teach it. This pressure was applied at every national and statewide conference in America over the past five years.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

"a lie cannot live forever" -

[DAII]

Saw it and commented on this in another thread ... fascinating ... I thought it was interesting that they even suggested "delaying" certain cultural things in order to keep the new converts.