List of grace giving churches.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by wire2john

Not only that, but I know of no congregations who do not require you to profess belief in the doctrine of church tithing to be a voting member, something I cannot do in clear conscience. And being a permanent outsider is a less than desirable position.

As a congregation we do not teach tithing (tithing according to the law of God is IMPOSSIBLE and has been since AD70 or thereabouts). We also don't have "voting members". You are either born again (and thus a member) or you aren't (and thus not a member). We believe in theocratic church government not democratic church government (God rules not majority rules). There's really nothing to " vote" on anyway as we have no building fund or salaries to pay.

We don't do collections. If you want to give money to God go find some poor or homeless or widow or orphans and help them out. Otherwise a person gives however much to whoever or whatever they want. We have no "church treasury" and frankly don't need or want one.

As for "never been a Christian nation" it depends on how you define that. I would say there have been quite a few Christian nations, nations whose people and government publicly and personally confess Jesus is the Christ and which model their laws on the Word of God. Perfect? No. But a far cry from Revolutionary France or Communist nations. Too bad America has abandoned it's godly heritage and has dove in both feet into apostate humanistic socialism (ever since ww2 or so).

Anyway, where are you?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Rudy

I was told the upc requires its ministers to sign a statement that they will teach and practice tithing. If so, then that would limit options.

The "Affirmation Statement" ministers were required to sign didn't mention tithing.

I ________, do hereby declare that I believe and embrace the Fundamental Doctrine as stated in the Articles of Faith as set forth in the Manual of the United Pentecostal Church International. I also believe and embrace the holiness standards of the United Pentecostal Church International as set forth in said Articles of Faith, and I pledge to practice, preach, and teach the same.

[wire2john]

So neither the 'Articles of Faith' nor the 'Manual of the United Pentecostal Church International' has anything to say about tithing? I've heard it preached as a matter of salvation on several occasions; it is hard to imagine that the organization has not taken an official position. I went to the upci.org website but could not find the documents so I can't say for certain. You can find them with Google from other sources but there is no way to know if they have been tampered with.

[wire2john]

Originally Posted by n david

The "Affirmation Statement" ministers were required to sign didn't mention tithing.

You seemed to be implying that Rudy was pulling the idea out of thin air yet you knew the 'Articles of Faith' take a definitive position concerning tithing. Help me understand your logic here.

[Rudy]

Never came across one that required one to profess tithing. But yes to be a voting member.

[n david]

Originally Posted by wire2john

You seemed to be implying that Rudy was pulling the idea out of thin air when in fact you knew that the 'Articles of Faith' take a definitive position concerning tithing... I'm not sure why you would do that.

Again, there is no statement a minister must sign stating they agree and will preach tithing. That's my only disagreement with what was stated.

My father has been licensed with the UPCI almost 60 years. I've seen the affirmation statement he signs. Nothing about tithing on that statement.

[wire2john]

Oh well we can agree to disagree on this one. IMHO no one has the real authority to ordain anyone anyway since we are disconnected from a direct line to the original apostles.

[Rudy]

Here's the UPC Article of Faith on Tithing:
"We believe tithing is God’s financial plan to provide for His work, and has been since the days of Abraham. Tithing came with faith under Abraham, Moses’ law enjoined it, and Israel practiced it when she was right with God; Jesus indorsed it (Matt. 23:23); and Paul said to lay by in store as God has prospered you. Do not rob God of His portion, viz., tithes and offerings."

Not all tithed before the law--not all tithed during the law--Jesus did not not indorse it universally..The articles of faith is referring to Matt.23:23. He was telling them in other words --no big deal that you tithe your herbs because food items were to be tithed!! They were missing the weightier matters of the law.

Also, Paul did not endorse tithes & offerings. That is misleading.

Those not involved in agriculture were not required to tithe under the law.

I was told by a upc minister they do sign a statement. Maybe he meant the Articles of Faith. I said, "if so."

[n david]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Here's the UPC Article of Faith on Tithing:
"We believe tithing is God’s financial plan to provide for His work, and has been since the days of Abraham. Tithing came with faith under Abraham, Moses’ law enjoined it, and Israel practiced it when she was right with God; Jesus indorsed it (Matt. 23:23); and Paul said to lay by in store as God has prospered you. Do not rob God of His portion, viz., tithes and offerings."

Not all tithed before the law--not all tithed during the law--Jesus did not not indorse it universally..The articles of faith is referring to Matt.23:23. He was telling them in other words --no big deal that you tithe your herbs because food items were to be tithed!! They were missing the weightier matters of the law.

Also, Paul did not endorse tithes & offerings. That is misleading.

Those not involved in agriculture were not required to tithe under the law.

I was told by a upc minister they do sign a statement. Maybe he meant the Articles of Faith. I said, "if so."

There is an Affirmation Statement which a UPCI minister must sign. Again, my father has been licensed for almost 60 years, I've seen the Affirmation Statement. There is nothing about tithing on the affirmation statement he signs.

Even the Articles of Faith on tithing does not demand a minister believe or preach a certain way. It's simply the UPC belief on the issue.

[shazeep]

Judah
Ft Myers, FL
http://judahcc.com/