Can God Pray? - Page 13

seekerman · #**121** 11-08-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Ah... but you assume that we are not God. An ancient saying goes, "God became man, so that man might become God." Please note, it says, "God", not "gods". We become living extensions of God Almighty. We have become "Sons of God", as much as Christ (our elder brother was). It is no longer we that live... but Christ who lives within us. Yes, we too can experience "oneness" with God through the indwelling Holy Spirit. We too can be "branches" of the "true vine"... His life and power flowing through us.

The only difference between you and the man Jesus Christ (if you've been born of the Spirit) is that the man Jesus Christ wasn't born of human will... but miraculously through divine will. In addition, the man Jesus Christ was the Logos (the very light, plan, and mind of God) fashioned and formed into a human being. Therefore, the man Jesus Christ was the perfect representation of the Father in full humanity. The oneness shared between the Father and the man Jesus Christ began in the womb of Mary at conception. That being so, the man Jesus Christ was the perfect image and reflection of the Father who dwelt within Him. We are not. We were born of human will. We were born through biological process. Our humanity is representative of our own unique humanity. Our "oneness" with the Father began in time when we were born again.

Thus, the man Jesus Christ (the Son) was a perfect reflection of the Father. In addition... the Father was manifest in Him from conception.

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

John 14:20
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. (KJV)

John 15:4
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. (KJV)

The 'little gods' view is an interesting one indeed. Maybe, at a level, we are gods (little g) but not in the sense of being the source and power of creation.

The name it and claim it movement is really a little god movement when you look at it's core. You speak it, it happens. Not in the grandeur of God in Genesis, but on a local, personal level.

Jesus Himself suggested we have that creative power also....

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

To be truthful, I haven't attained that level of Godliness yet.

Aquila · #**122** 11-08-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

The 'little gods' view is an interesting one indeed. Maybe, at a level, we are gods (little g) but not in the sense of being the source and power of creation.

The name it and claim it movement is really a little god movement when you look at it's core. You speak it, it happens. Not in the grandeur of God in Genesis, but on a local, personal level.

Jesus Himself suggested we have that creative power also....

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

To be truthful, I haven't attained that level of Godliness yet.

Few of us have. And interestingly... when we do... we don't always maintain it. Flesh, ego, and sin hinders the divine nature residing in us (His nature imparted through the indwelling Spirit) from fully manifesting. We become our own hindrance.

However, I wouldn't say that we become "little gods". I'd say that we become... God. We become "God" in that we are one spirit with Him... united with Him by Spirit and then conformed into His image daily by submission and the eradication of sin, self, and ego.

And if we are each one spirit with the Lord... we are one spirit with one another. Now, doesn't that bring us to some serious implications with regards to how we should treat one another... I can't hurt you... without hurting me. The Lord and His church (note we are corporately "the body of Christ") is a single organism made of many distinct (but not separate) people. We are one. Who is one? I am.

Aquila · #**123** 11-08-2013, 01:47 PM

In a very real sense, God was manifest in the man Jesus Christ (who is a human reflection and image of His own person in flesh) to elevate humanity into divinity. Why? So that through Christ, God would reconcile us to Himself. Why? So that we might receive the Holy Spirit? Why? So that by receiving the Spirit we might once more be united with Him and partake in His own divine nature... Oneness.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,... (KJV)

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. (KJV)

If we have become one spirit with the Lord through the Spirit... we experience the same "Oneness" Christ represented from His conception. We become, "sons of God". Christ died that we might be justified by His blood... and that man might once more become one with God. No more separation. Not even in being. Oneness is more than a Christology... it's the very meaning of life. God desires to purify us and elevate us into His very nature... that He might live through us... and we through Him. To make us living extensions of Himself. To become... one with God.

Aquila · #**124** 11-08-2013, 02:09 PM

So... to answer the question; "Can God pray"?

In a sense, "no". Because prayer is strictly a human practice to communicate with the divine.

However, in another sense "yes". God has become spiritually one with humanity through Christ. Thus, every time Christ prayed... God prayed. Every time you and I who are born of Spirit prays... God prays.

TGBTG · #**125** 11-08-2013, 02:41 PM

Why would we define prayer as a strictly human practice in the first place?

Maybe a prayer of help or deliverance implies a human praying, but how about a prayer of intercession as stated in Rom 8?

Rom 8
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Aquila · #**126** 11-08-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Why would we define prayer as a strictly human practice in the first place?

Maybe a prayer of help or deliverance implies a human praying, but how about a prayer of intercession as stated in Rom 8?

Rom 8
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

That's a good point TGBTG. I believe it ties into what I said when I said,

So... to answer the question; "Can God pray"?

In a sense, "no". Because prayer is strictly a human practice to communicate with the divine.

However, in another sense "yes". God has become spiritually one with humanity through Christ. Thus, every time Christ prayed... God prayed. Every time you and I who are born of Spirit prays... God prays.

Is this verse you presented not the Holy Spirit of God interceding through the prayers of the Saint of God???

Praxeas · #**127** 11-08-2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Why would we define prayer as a strictly human practice in the first place?

Maybe a prayer of help or deliverance implies a human praying, but how about a prayer of intercession as stated in Rom 8?

Rom 8
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

If the Holy Spirit is God why would He need to pray having all power, all knowledge and the mind of God already?

Praxeas · #**128** 11-08-2013, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Multiple personality disorder.

MPD is a brain disorder and nothing more than attempt on your part to be belligerent

It has nothing to do with being both God and Human

Abiding Now · #**129** 11-08-2013, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If the Holy Spirit is God why would He need to pray having all power, all knowledge and the mind of God already?

Hear hear!

jfrog · #**130** 11-09-2013, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Or 'interentity'. Whatever term is used it should recognize that there was a relationship between to somethings, not one something with multiple relationships with Himself.

Prax does recognize that there is a relationship between two beings. God is a being and the man Jesus is a being. He has relationships between two somethings.