Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

[shazeep]

yes, fair enough; but that illustration falls short, in that we are told that we cannot see what color the paper is; we see through a mirror, darkly, right? The biggest enemy may be 'certainty' in a human. You do not know; and i don't either. I'm not sure why this is--perhaps to highlight the need for love, and grace. Fresh from the oven is best for you.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, fair enough; but that illustration falls short, in that we are told that we cannot see what color the paper is; we see through a mirror, darkly, right? The biggest enemy may be 'certainty' in a human. You do not know; and i don't either. I'm not sure why this is--perhaps to highlight the need for love, and grace. Fresh from the oven is best for you.

We can and should know the specific way to heaven:

John 14: 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

[shazeep]

ya...i would lol here, but it isn't over yet
presented to us as 'nation building" it is just satan running rampant
there is nothing new under the sun.

"The Bible conference of Constantine may have preserved the unity of the Catholic Church but at the expense of Christianity. Those with a zeal for Bible Doctrine forgot the Love of God and became legalists. The issue of the deity of Christ had become the doctrine that turned the bishops of the Catholic Church into legalists. Those who disagreed were brow beaten into signing the Nicene creed. And those who rejected the creed were branded heretics and banished. Now, they were right about the deity of Christ, which is a very important doctrine of the Church; but what they did in the name of Christ was anything but Christian."
http://www.biblenews1.com/babylon/babylon7.html

another reflection

[Revelationist]

Might I add here while we are discussing Islam that during the crusades the Muslems protected the one God churches because they both believed in one God. This can be found in history.

[shazeep]

funny you mention that, i'm reading about it right now

"In the name of religion under the very nose of Christians, Satan took over the Church and used it to perpetrate all manner of evil. He proclaimed the Virgin Mary as the new Prostitute of Babylon. She was proclaimed the holy mother of God and worshipped by Christians. Idolatry was practiced in the worship of saints, relics, and crucifixes. Church treasuries were filled with money, the "root of all evil." The Divine Institution of Marriage was forbidden for priests. Children were taken from parents to be indoctrinated into the evil of Baal. The Roman Catholic Church murdered, pillaged, raped, ruined, and ruled in the name of religion. No other institution in the history of the world has perpetrated more evil than the Roman Catholic Church. It is the epitome of the Prostitute of Babylon. No greater example of the Prostitute of Babylon exists in human history..."
same link

gee, i wonder why Muhammad (PBUH) was so adamant about One God...

[shazeep]

do you not see that the correct words in your estimation are irrelevant, luke?
was not Ishmael blessed of God, and also made a great nation?

[Luke]

The Bible:

Matthew 3:17 and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

The quran

Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth break asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. That they should ascribe a son to the Merciful, when it does not become the Lord of Mercy to beget one!
—Qur’an 19:88

Those who believe that allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6).

allah has never begotten a son and there are no deities beside him (23:91).

Jews say that Ezra is the son of allah while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of allah. May allah destroy them. They are both perverted. They worship rabbis, monks and the Messiah, the son of Mary, as Lords besides allah in opposition to the monotheistic command given them (9:30, 31).

The Bible

Matthew 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified

John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout

The quran

That they said (in their boast), "We killed the Messiah Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), The Messenger of allah"- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety They killed him not-Nay, allah raised him up unto Himself; and allah is Exalted in Power, Wise- Q 4:157-158


How can both of these have been authored by the same God when they say the exact opposite of each other?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Luke

The Bible:

Matthew 3:17 and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

The quran

Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth break asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. That they should ascribe a son to the Merciful, when it does not become the Lord of Mercy to beget one!
—Qur’an 19:88

Those who believe that allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6).

allah has never begotten a son and there are no deities beside him (23:91).

Jews say that Ezra is the son of allah while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of allah. May allah destroy them. They are both perverted. They worship rabbis, monks and the Messiah, the son of Mary, as Lords besides allah in opposition to the monotheistic command given them (9:30, 31).

The Bible

Matthew 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified

John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout

The quran

That they said (in their boast), "We killed the Messiah Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), The Messenger of allah"- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety They killed him not-Nay, allah raised him up unto Himself; and allah is Exalted in Power, Wise- Q 4:157-158


How can both of these have been authored by the same God when they say the exact opposite of each other?

Shazeep i answered your question now your turn to do as you said and answer mine.

[shazeep]

i can tell you how; but first you must answer a question; if Isaac was the chosen, how could Ishmael also be "blessed of God?"

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i can tell you how; but first you must answer a question; if Isaac was the chosen, how could Ishmael also be "blessed of God?"

The seems to give reasons why Ishmael was blessed of God but not the promised seed of Abraham.


Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

The first reason was because of his father's prayers.

The second reason was because of who his father was.