A Picture of Grace from God's Point of View

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

boy, that is one dark god you guys serve, uncounted billions in hell, and the four of you in heaven. So, you have accepted this huge legal edifice of salvation, the definitions of which you cannot even verify, as has already been shown at "saved," "believe," and prolly even "baptize," yet you are comfortable enough with the rest of Scripture--the various warnings about pride in it, what "accuser" means etc--that you feel confident enough to declare that you know how God judges people?

And it turns out that it really isn't one's heart that God judges, but one's public declarations? Do i have that right? Anything up there you might put differently?

So, you feel you can create your version of God and make sure it's nice enough top fit your preconceived ideas? See, we cannot do that. Our God is loving beyond imagination, but your cookie cutter version demands certain elements in ways you dictate them to be, which is the reason you distort scripture and discount what you don't like.

To us, the entire word fits together.

Now once again, resist the urge to run from scripture:

Show me how you take Mark 16:16 and reconcile it with believers by grace and not condemning them, (while no one is condemning anyone around here anyway, except you condemning me).

Mar 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
__________________

[shazeep]

do you think this constant hurling of veiled insults helps your cause any? Is this really any different from the current Bert thread? I don't know about Mark for sure; my argument would be that we have been led down a path, in the transformation of the definitions of "belief" and likely "baptized" also, so that our definitions are surely not the ones intended, as we have already shown with "believe."

But over and above that--let's just assume your arbitrary definitions are correct--we have many, many parables that should at least give one pause before whole-heartedly accepting such a prideful model, and even simple Scriptural truth, which it appears you just ignore, neither running from nor toward--the meek shall inherit the earth, for instance. Judge not, lest you be judged. Only God knows the heart. Scripture is full of them.

So i would ask again how you imagine that you are any different from the Spanish Inquisition, or Bert? Iow, what if you are wrong, and the Scripture you won't address is right, or at least right enough to condemn you, who seems comfortable in the place of "accuser?"

Isn't the entire OT a lesson on attempting to enforce faith with law, and the ensuing destruction of God's chosen people by those who considered themselves "righteous?" Who could not be blamed under the law, but would not lift a finger to further the kingdom of God?

[shazeep]

And it turns out that it really isn't one's heart that God judges, but one's public declarations? Do i have that right?

how is this "creating a version of God?"

[shazeep]

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

And it turns out that it really isn't one's heart that God judges, but one's public declarations? Do i have that right?

how is this "creating a version of God?"

How many times have I said it's not public declarations or confessions, and that God only knows who truly obeyed his word in faith? and you talk as if the opposite is true. it's impossible to talk to you since anything we said is equated to lying to you.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

some people work. hello?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

do you think this constant hurling of veiled insults helps your cause any? Is this really any different from the current Bert thread? I don't know about Mark for sure; my argument would be that we have been led down a path, in the transformation of the definitions of "belief" and likely "baptized" also, so that our definitions are surely not the ones intended, as we have already shown with "believe."

But over and above that--let's just assume your arbitrary definitions are correct--we have many, many parables that should at least give one pause before whole-heartedly accepting such a prideful model, and even simple Scriptural truth, which it appears you just ignore, neither running from nor toward--the meek shall inherit the earth, for instance. Judge not, lest you be judged. Only God knows the heart. Scripture is full of them.

So i would ask again how you imagine that you are any different from the Spanish Inquisition, or Bert? Iow, what if you are wrong, and the Scripture you won't address is right, or at least right enough to condemn you, who seems comfortable in the place of "accuser?"

Isn't the entire OT a lesson on attempting to enforce faith with law, and the ensuing destruction of God's chosen people by those who considered themselves "righteous?" Who could not be blamed under the law, but would not lift a finger to further the kingdom of God?

You're the one who started the inquisition after we simply said any group who denies Jesus cross is vital for salvation is lost, when you accused that of being hateful and condemning. lol


and you mentioned scripture that we don't address, after I said over and over to present it. you run from discussion of scripture.

you're not sure of Mark after you demand we take it with grace? of course! it's scripture! material to solicit a run.

[shazeep]

being that God judges a person's heart, and God's ways are not our ways, at some point you have to admit that God may not be using our yardstick to condemn or bless, ergo any statements about your own salvation, let alone others, become spurious. I have a feeling we're as close as we're going to get here.

[houston]

Originally Posted by mfblume

some people work. hello?

You work..?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by houston

You work..?

Yes.