"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[Amanah]

wasn't he teasing? he looks hairy to me.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

wasn't he teasing? he looks hairy to me.

Maybe? But if he cannot grow beyond that, or if there are a lot of gaps that aren't showing, then I can see how he means he wishes he could grow a beard.

Brother, if it's just gaps, don't fret it. As you grow, the rest of your beard will fill in around the gaps and then cover them up.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Amanah

wasn't he teasing? he looks hairy to me.

Yeah. But it takes longer to grow now. Two weeks for a decent shadow. Used to take 2 days.

[n david]

Guess you're bored and decided to beat a dead horse, eh Aquila?

I've never heard beard preached as a sin. Period. I was born and raised in the UPCI, attending camp meetings, conventions, conferences and revival services in districts around the US. The church I attend now is UPC. Again, I've never heard it preached against as a sin.

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

It's ridiculous that people will do anything an employer asks of them, dress how the employer demands they dress --- even to the point of shaving their beard if the company's dress code states they must be clean shaven --- and with no complaint!

But let a Pastor have a dress code for people participating on the platform and the complaints and accusations of false doctrine begin.

"Men who are being forced to shave to join, be a part of, participate, minister, or lead in a church, aren't fully men at all."

That's straight trash. God placed a Pastor to lead the church. If I'm attending that church, I should be willing to be obedient to the man God placed to lead that church. You claim men aren't really men if they follow a dress code. Absurd. Also, does this apply to secular employment as well? If an employer's dress code says men must be clean shaven, are they less a man for doing so. Gimme a break!

Again, let's review:
A Pastor may require a dress code for those who wish to be involved in ministry on the platform at the church God placed them to lead;

Said dress code is not required to show chapter and verse for each line item

If you disagree, then you should find somewhere else to worship.

The end.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by n david

Guess you're bored and decided to beat a dead horse, eh Aquila?

I've never heard beard preached as a sin. Period. I was born and raised in the UPCI, attending camp meetings, conventions, conferences and revival services in districts around the US. The church I attend now is UPC. Again, I've never heard it preached against as a sin.

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

It's ridiculous that people will do anything an employer asks of them, dress how the employer demands they dress --- even to the point of shaving their beard if the company's dress code states they must be clean shaven --- and with no complaint!

But let a Pastor have a dress code for people participating on the platform and the complaints and accusations of false doctrine begin.

"Men who are being forced to shave to join, be a part of, participate, minister, or lead in a church, aren't fully men at all."

That's straight trash. God placed a Pastor to lead the church. If I'm attending that church, I should be willing to be obedient to the man God placed to lead that church. You claim men aren't really men if they follow a dress code. Absurd. Also, does this apply to secular employment as well? If an employer's dress code says men must be clean shaven, are they less a man for doing so. Gimme a break!

Again, let's review:
A Pastor may require a dress code for those who wish to be involved in ministry on the platform at the church God placed them to lead;

Said dress code is not required to show chapter and verse for each line item

If you disagree, then you should find somewhere else to worship.

The end.

We ought never compare the pillar and ground of the truth of the Living God and Creator and Savior to secular employment. The way the Body of Christ is to exist, operate, and function is so far removed from all that is secular, as to be seen as foreign or alien to the ways of the world. One is holy, the very Bride of the Anointed One, the other is profane, or at least merely mundane, and has nothing to do with the other.

To even suggest such a thing...

And, to have no Bible for standards and that being okay is tantamount to mutiny. It makes Jesus not be the Head of that Body if His Word can be disregarded and something else can be propped up in its place.

Maybe being raised in the UPC your whole life gives you a skewed view of things? At least as much as being raised in the world for one's whole life gives a person a skewed view of the UPC? The tendency toward bias is ever present with all of us, after all.

[n david]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

We ought never compare the pillar and ground of the truth of the Living God and Creator and Savior to secular employment. The way the Body of Christ is to exist, operate, and function is so far removed from all that is secular, as to be seen as foreign or alien to the ways of the world. One is holy, the very Bride of the Anointed One, the other is profane, or at least merely mundane, and has nothing to do with the other.

To even suggest such a thing...

It does have something to do with it. When a person degrades the role of a Pastor, openly calling for men to rebel against them, it shows there's a bigger issue than just disagreeing with a dress code.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

And, to have no Bible for standards and that being okay is tantamount to mutiny.

So posting that men should rebel against a Pastor who is placed to lead a church is okay? Hypocrisy. You flat out told men to rebel against their Pastor. And you're admin? Seriously?

What do you believe the role of the Pastor is? Please explain this, because your post shows you have no respect for the role. So what do you believe the role of a Pastor is?

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It makes Jesus not be the Head of that Body if His Word can be disregarded and something else can be propped up in its place.

Wrong. We're not talking about church doctrine or salvation. Again, I have never in the years I've been alive and churches I have visited, I have never personally heard a Pastor or other minister say it is a sin to grow a beard. Having a dress code does NOT disregard the Word, nor does it remove God as the Head of the Body.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Maybe being raised in the UPC your whole life gives you a skewed view of things? At least as much as being raised in the world for one's whole life gives a person a skewed view of the UPC? The tendency toward bias is ever present with all of us, after all.

Sure, because I hold a different view than you, I'M the one who has a skewed view and biased view...

Do you shave or grow a beard?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

It does have something to do with it. When a person degrades the role of a Pastor, openly calling for men to rebel against them, it shows there's a bigger issue than just disagreeing with a dress code.

Ummm... I'm not concerned so much with dress codes that encourage modesty.

So posting that men should rebel against a Pastor who is placed to lead a church is okay? Hypocrisy. You flat out told men to rebel against their Pastor. And you're admin? Seriously?

I don't see that. I see Votive stating that men should take a stand for the Scriptures in the face of the traditions and doctrines of men.

What do you believe the role of the Pastor is? Please explain this, because your post shows you have no respect for the role. So what do you believe the role of a Pastor is?

The only one's without respect for the office of pastor are those who abuse it by claiming Pope like authority to invent doctrines in accordance to their personal opinions. That does far more damage to the office of pastor than a man who resists such pastoral abuse.

Wrong. We're not talking about church doctrine or salvation. Again, I have never in the years I've been alive and churches I have visited, I have never personally heard a Pastor or other minister say it is a sin to grow a beard. Having a dress code does NOT disregard the Word, nor does it remove God as the Head of the Body.

Many of us have. Many of us have also heard that it is a "sin" to disobey the pulpit, and so, whatever the pastor says is divine edict... even if it has no biblical foundation. And so, such pulpits often forbid beards, making it a sin. Here's the danger in this teaching... what if a pastor were to convince the church that it is the end of the world and that it would be better to commit mass suicide than to surrender to the authority of the Antichrist? This is the stuff that cults are made of.

Sure, because I hold a different view than you, I'M the one who has a skewed view and biased view...

Do you shave or grow a beard?

Votive said that we all are subject to having bias and therefore we all run the risk of having a skewed perception of an issue. Not just you, my brother.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by n david

Guess you're bored and decided to beat a dead horse, eh Aquila?

I've never heard beard preached as a sin. Period. I was born and raised in the UPCI, attending camp meetings, conventions, conferences and revival services in districts around the US. The church I attend now is UPC. Again, I've never heard it preached against as a sin.

I could describe myself in the same terms, and I have definitely heard it described as sin. If you don't realize that this is the case you must have been living under a rock somewhere. Also actions speak louder than words, and the actions are deafening.

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

HMM. It makes you wonder why Paul thought the Bereans were more noble than the saints at Thessalonika because they studied the scripture daily to see if these things be so. If the Apostle Paul was not afraid to be held accountable to the scriptures, perhaps our pastors should not be either.

It's ridiculous that people will do anything an employer asks of them, dress how the employer demands they dress --- even to the point of shaving their beard if the company's dress code states they must be clean shaven --- and with no complaint!

It is NOT ridiculous, it is commendable, and it is noble, according to the Apostle Paul. (See above.)

But let a Pastor have a dress code for people participating on the platform and the complaints and accusations of false doctrine begin.

"Men who are being forced to shave to join, be a part of, participate, minister, or lead in a church, aren't fully men at all."

That's straight trash. God placed a Pastor to lead the church. [COLOR="darkred"]

I am not aware of ANY instance of God placing a pastor, or any other single authoritative figure over a church, ever. Could you please provide scripture to support this notion? From the Bible? [/COLOR

]If I'm attending that church, I should be willing to be obedient to the man God placed to lead that church.

Elders were ordained to oversee the churches. Always plural. Pastors ordained to lead a church? Extra-biblical. Scripture to support this statement please?

You claim men aren't really men if they follow a dress code. Absurd. Also, does this apply to secular employment as well? If an employer's dress code says men must be clean shaven, are they less a man for doing so. Gimme a break!

Again, let's review:
A Pastor may require a dress code for those who wish to be involved in ministry on the platform at the church God placed them to lead;

Said dress code is not required to show chapter and verse for each line item

If you disagree, then you should find somewhere else to worship.

Now this I may agree with.

The end.

I'll be waiting on those scripture references!!



Oh . . . I forgot . . . You don't need to quote scripture. Just because . . . I guess anything goes.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Oh . . . I forgot . . . You don't need to quote scripture. Just because . . . I guess anything goes.

If you're not going to be honest about the context in which I posted this, I have no desire to respond to the rest of your post.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by n david

If you're not going to be honest about the context in which I posted this, I have no desire to respond to the rest of your post.

Brother, if I have misrepresented what you intended to say, please accept my sincere apologies. I also extend an invitation to you to explain in your own words what you meant when you said the following . . .

"In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story."

Please explain how I am being dishonest when I say that you believe that the pastor should not be held accountable to scripture. If I have misrepresented your position I hope to be man enough to offer sincere apologies. Please proceed to explain what you really meant to say. Maybe then you can respond to the rest of my post with relevant scripture references.