House churches/Organic church, your opinion?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

I don't care where you worship! I have worshiped and led worship under a tree in the middle of a cow pasture in Cuba and preached to 150,000 in a massive church in Nigeria, West Africa. I have preached in slums, shacks, tents, storefronts, cathedrals, city auditoriums, houses, barns, in the park, on the rooftop, street corners, sidewalks, in front yards, on buses, in cars, trains, planes and in 61 nations and have sense enough to know GOD DOES NOT DWELL IN BUILDINGS MADE WITH HANDS!
The condescending, rude, sarcastic, ridiculing, "snarky" (never heard that word before), smart mouthed remarks have been made about people that think "the building is the church". I have never know anybody in my life that believed that! These guys must be in a highly Catholic area or something where they think God lives in the Catholic Cathedral. I have never actually met anyone that believed that and certainly not any Pentecostals that I have ever met.
If you can't stand the heat - get out of the kitchen! If you don't like large Churches - don't go! If you don't like house churches - don't go!

Your argument that every time someone says CHURCH that you hate it because you THINK they are saying the Church is a building... is STUPID! NOBODY is saying the building is the place where God lives! Lord have mercy!

And yet... you continue.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Do you ever actually have a conversation on a subject like this or do you just continue to shovel sarcasm and condescending remarks at the subject and the people discussing it?

If you don't have anything to actually add to a conversation other than ridicule and disdain then why do you continue to just make snarky remarks page after page after page with nothing real to say?

I just cannot get my mind around why you continue when you know that all you have to add is smart mouthed remarks and ridicule for the way your brothers in Christ might choose to worship?

Do you consider what you are "adding" to this conversation to be substance of any kind?

Do you not consider that what you are "adding" to this conversation is little more than 200 proof ridicule for the way a brother might choose to worship God?

Do you consider what you "add" to be helpful to anyone/anything but your own ego?

I'm not trying to attack you or anything. I just cannot figure out why you continue to do what you do on subjects like this. I am sure there are subjects where you actually engage in the conversation but there are a few subjects, like this one, where all you ever do is cut people down for what they believe and make sarcastic remarks about nearly anything they say.

What does it add?
Why do you continue?

It's evident he's never been truly discipled. Else he wouldn't fear and display such an angry spirit about people who just want biblical discipleship in their gatherings.

Church isn't about a "sermon". It's about discipleship and fellowship. It's coming together to edify one another... not to have one man spoon feed us. It's about body ministry and everyone bringing their gifts to the table. AB has never been taught to spiritually walk in such a dynamic and powerful setting. He's used to the Sunday performance, the form and fashion of our traditional church methods. He hasn't come entirely out of the Catholic Apostasy yet. He still most likely observes the Lord's Supper like a Sacred Snack with a wafer and a thimble of grape juice, sacramentalizing it instead of understanding it's full purpose in the gathering as being an actual meal. You know, it was the Catholics who moved from a full meal to this wafer sacrament thing. Technically... it's not even the Lord's Supper. At best, it's definitely not the Lord's Supper as Jesus intended it.

So let's be merciful on AB. He's precious and just doesn't understand. He hasn't seen the Kingdom we see. He sees the Kingdom through the stained glass windows of the tradition he was taught not to challenge.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I know an elderly Sister that taught us that to go to the church in the early morning to pray was the best time to reach God, as the angels were ascending and decending (the jacob's ladder thing) at that time.

I actually think a place and a person can be holy unto the Lord.

Is that in the Bible?

Remember, Stephen was stoned for stating that Christ was Lord and that God doesn't dwell in temples made with human hands.

[ThePastorsCoach]

Aquila, with all due respect, I do not believe a word of what you just posted. I love you but I honestly believe you are wrong. The early church met in houses AND temples and riverbanks and where ever they could find a place large enough to accommodate the crowds.
There was far more than 12 to 20 adults when they met. Actually, there were THOUSANDS!
My brother attends a house church and frequently teaches there. ROFL! I know you guys can't believe I am telling you this! I actually LOVE to go there and I don't wear house shoes either! LOL I will be there this Saturday evening. I can promise you - I could not just stand up and request to speak or take the mic from the Shepard or sing my song. It has order just like the New Testament Church did.
I may be wrong in this (I think I was wrong one other time in my life) but it seems to me what you are a part of is what we used to call - Free Pentecost where anything went and anybody could get up and say anything and believe you me - I have seen all that and more and want NO PART in it.
I love ORDER and teach Apostolic Order brings an Apostolic Anointing.
Now to have a house meeting where someone is in charge and directs and can tell people to sit down when they are out of order is fine with me. I have seen people out of order in a mega-church and in a small church and in a house church.
I hope you have a great day! We are feeding Jesus at the Prison today!
If you met me - you would laugh with me at all this! ;-)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

I don't care where you worship! I have worshiped and led worship under a tree in the middle of a cow pasture in Cuba and preached to 150,000 in a massive church in Nigeria, West Africa. I have preached in slums, shacks, tents, storefronts, cathedrals, city auditoriums, houses, barns, in the park, on the rooftop, street corners, sidewalks, in front yards, on buses, in cars, trains, planes and in 61 nations and have sense enough to know GOD DOES NOT DWELL IN BUILDINGS MADE WITH HANDS!
The condescending, rude, sarcastic, ridiculing, "snarky" (never heard that word before), smart mouthed remarks have been made about people that think "the building is the church". I have never know anybody in my life that believed that! These guys must be in a highly Catholic area or something where they think God lives in the Catholic Cathedral. I have never actually met anyone that believed that and certainly not any Pentecostals that I have ever met.
If you can't stand the heat - get out of the kitchen! If you don't like large Churches - don't go! If you don't like house churches - don't go!

Your argument that every time someone says CHURCH that you hate it because you THINK they are saying the Church is a building... is STUPID! NOBODY is saying the building is the place where God lives! Lord have mercy!

My experience has always been with the pastor saying, "I'm so thankful to be the HOUSE OF GOD today. Anyone else here thankful to be here? God has truly blessed us with this wonderful church building and facilities where His presence can be found. Let's remembe to faithfully give so that we can honor GOD'S HOUSE as it should be honored." Then the song leader leads the praise team with "We Are Standing On Holy Ground". I was always taught that unless I showed up at that holy building I was not "in church". Now I realize I can meet with a brother or hand full of brothers at a coffee shop and if we discuss Jesus, Scriptures, and edify one another, we've had church. I'm so thankful that this is about a Kingdom and not an organization or country club.

But again, that's not what we want YOU to address AB. We're looking to fulfill Corinthians 14:26-38. Something that can only be done in a smaller setting. Why do we want to fulfill it? Because that passage contains COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD concerning our gatherings.

[Nitehawk013]

Not to be argumentative AB, but where does that order...or liturgy...come from?

Where is it spelled out in the NT that when in service with the body, the order is that one man stands at an elevated desk and gives a monologue (preaching) and all others are supposed to simply sit and listen, with no chance to ask for clarification or share what God has spoken or shown to them?

Was you own education in the word better when you had to just sit and listen or when you were able to dialog with the teacher and ask questions to better your understanding?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Aquila, with all due respect, I do not believe a word of what you just posted. I love you but I honestly believe you are wrong. The early church met in houses AND temples and riverbanks and where ever they could find a place large enough to accommodate the crowds.
There was far more than 12 to 20 adults when they met. Actually, there were THOUSANDS!
My brother attends a house church and frequently teaches there. ROFL! I know you guys can't believe I am telling you this! I actually LOVE to go there and I don't wear house shoes either! LOL I will be there this Saturday evening. I can promise you - I could not just stand up and request to speak or take the mic from the Shepard or sing my song. It has order just like the New Testament Church did.
I may be wrong in this (I think I was wrong one other time in my life) but it seems to me what you are a part of is what we used to call - Free Pentecost where anything went and anybody could get up and say anything and believe you me - I have seen all that and more and want NO PART in it.
I love ORDER and teach Apostolic Order brings an Apostolic Anointing.
Now to have a house meeting where someone is in charge and directs and can tell people to sit down when they are out of order is fine with me. I have seen people out of order in a mega-church and in a small church and in a house church.
I hope you have a great day! We are feeding Jesus at the Prison today!
If you met me - you would laugh with me at all this! ;-)

Frankly, I don't care if it's fine with you or not. It's a commandment from God that all be permitted to prophesy. However, I agree with Apostolic order as you do. The established prophets and elders who lead the group have authority to correct any brother or sister that they might learn the way more perfectly.

To neglect this format, the format God commands, is to be in rebellion.

I'm very supportive of larger gatherings and even mega gatherings. I also support house churches, home fellowship groups, care groups, and Bible study groups where there is body ministry. However, if a large church DOESN'T have a venue where all may prophesy and the body ministers to itself in discussion and teaching... they are failing the Biblical mandate and failing to properly disciple. Please note... no where are we commanded to have any other format in Scripture. This is the one that is an absolute MUST HAVE.

I pray that you see that we're talking about the value of gathering as commanded in I Corinthians 14:26-38 before worrying about all the buildings, programs, etc. I Corinthians 14:26-38 is Scripture. Having a choir and isles to run isn't. We must experience and empliment I Corinthians 14:26-38. And what we are commanded to do in here requires smaller groups.

[Aquila]

Please keep in mind that Jesus, our example, discipled only 12 men. Those little gatherings with Jesus and the twelve where Jesus teaches and disciples them is a perfect example of the type of close and intimate discipleship that house churches provide. Did they attend larger settings? Yes! But the deepest discipling took place in those campfire discussions between Jesus and the twelve.

[Aquila]

Lastly, we are not called to have stagnate membership that just gets hoarded up in a congregation somewhere (regardless of size). We are called to disciple and equip individuals to reach their world. The house church I attend has a goal. Within four years they expect the vast majority of us who continue to attend to at some point branch out and open our own homes for a house church. That's right... we don't desire anyone to sit on their laurals for 20 years or more as a mere "member" attending a meeting. The discipleship that takes place in the house churches I'm a part of is focused on equiping those present to become disciples of Jesus that reach their world. House churching doesn't grow by making members. House churching grows by multiplying fellowships home by home.

[Jay]

I do not support the house church movement as such. Everything I have read leads me to believe that they tend to be temporary rather unstable. Also, they seem to reject the idea of any spiritual authority and accountablility. I am not saying that all do, but that tends to be the attitude of the ones that I have talked to that left 'established' churches.