Are Trinitarians Saved?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jason B

Eliminate every oneness church having an Easter egg hunt today.
Be consistent. They are partaking in paganism.

Actually, I've brought that up. Lol

[Originalist]

Well, I'll let you guys concentrate on saving the world without me for a few days. I have a 15 page term paper due the 12th of April ,and that is just the beginning of sorrows. So, so-long for a few days. I pray all had a wonderful celebration of the Lord's resurrection today. Grace and peace be multiplied to all of you through God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Jason B]

Just putting this out there for readers who may want more than hear say or a snippet clip. EB, you too

https://youtu.be/Oul-9fbp1Ak

[Aquila]

John MacArthur contends that speaking in tongues is a demonic deception. That's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

John MacArthur contends that speaking in tongues is a demonic deception. That's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Not really. He's not saying demons are speaking through people. Rather, as a cessationist, that Satan deceives people into believing they ae speaking in tongues when they are only actually babbling. JM has not said a word against the Holy Spirit. He simply denies a certain gift of the Spirit is for today. That is ignorance, not blasphemy.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Not really. He's not saying demons are speaking through people. Rather, as a cessationist, that Satan deceives people into believing they ae speaking in tongues when they are only actually babbling. JM has not said a word against the Holy Spirit. He simply denies a certain gift of the Spirit is for today. That is ignorance, not blasphemy.

Bro, have you paid attention to John MacArthur's, Strange Fire, conference??? How about followed his sermon series on, Charismatic Chaos? The man believes that not only have the gifts ceased, but that today's tongues are a demonic delusion.

Let's look at what constitutes "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in Scripture:

Matthew 12:24-32 (KJV)
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit includes attributing a genuine work of the Spirit to being demonic in origin. In this text, it was Christ's authority and power to cast out devils that was said to be of demonic origin. But the same can be said of anyone who might judge the gift of tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, healing, etc. as being a "demonic delusion".

The man is Hell bound, damned where he stands. He's a false Apostle of Hell. And he's leading millions down the road to Hell with him by poisoning their minds against the work and gifts of the Holy Spirit. MacArthur is firewood. He's sealed his fate. He's chosen to oppose the Holy Spirit.

Look bro... no man can serve two masters. Else he'll learn to love one and hate the other. You can't fellowship with that which is inherently opposed to what you know to be true.

What is it that all this "evangelicalism" offers you that you feel you need, that you feel that you're not finding in the Apostolic movement??? Because I'm pretty sure that God isn't calling you to tear down the Apostolic truth of Scripture. Perhaps it is that very thing that God is calling you to contribute to the Apostolic movement.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bro, have you paid attention to John MacArthur's, Strange Fire, conference??? How about followed his sermon series on, Charismatic Chaos? The man believes that not only have the gifts ceased, but that today's tongues are a demonic delusion.

Let's look at what constitutes "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in Scripture:

Matthew 12:24-32 (KJV)
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit includes attributing a genuine work of the Spirit to being demonic in origin. In this text, it was Christ's authority and power to cast out devils that was said to be of demonic origin. But the same can be said of anyone who might judge the gift of tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, healing, etc. as being a "demonic delusion".

The man is Hell bound, damned where he stands. He's a false Apostle of Hell. And he's leading millions down the road to Hell with him by poisoning their minds against the work and gifts of the Holy Spirit. MacArthur is firewood. He's sealed his fate. He's chosen to oppose the Holy Spirit.

Look bro... no man can serve two masters. Else he'll learn to love one and hate the other. You can't fellowship with that which is inherently opposed to what you know to be true.

What is it that all this "evangelicalism" offers you that you feel you need, that you feel that you're not finding in the Apostolic movement??? Because I'm pretty sure that God isn't calling you to tear down the Apostolic truth of Scripture. Perhaps it is that very thing that God is calling you to contribute to the Apostolic movement.

Actually, much of what JM condemns in his Strange Fire conference is the same type of garbage condemned by Wilkerson and other Pentecostal ministers. Granted, JM is wrong on cessationism. But even with saying we are deceived on tongues does not constitute "blasphemy". Perhaps we should stop for a moment and consider what he is basing this on. He tends to lump all tongue-talkers together. There are many flakes out there. Reaching out to him is the solution. It's the same with his stand against our movement. As long as the hard-liners jump out in front to lead our parade, why is JM going to take us seriously? Why should he listen to someone who thinks he has NOTHING from God in his life? A couple of weeks ago you were saying similar things. Now you have totally flip-flopped.

As for your personal "pile-on"...I actually had to check to make sure this was really you posting this. Talk about a total flip-flop in just a matter of days!

So now I'm "serving two masters" for simply trying to be balanced in my criticism of JM? I'm "tearing down Apostolic truth" for simply analyzing what constitutes doing something "in the name of Jesus"? Are you serious?

Bro, I think you have let the resident hardliners on AFF, who represent but a fraction of the Apostolic movement, to shame you into back-peddling. I can no longer take you or them seriously.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Actually, much of what JM condemns in his Strange Fire conference is the same type of garbage condemned by Wilkerson and other Pentecostal ministers. Granted, JM is wrong on cessationism. But even with saying we are deceived on tongues does not constitute "blasphemy". Perhaps we should stop for a moment and consider what he is basing this on. He tends to lump all tongue-talkers together. There are many flakes out there. Reaching out to him is the solution. It's the same with his stand against our movement. As long as the hard-liners jump out in front to lead our parade, why is JM going to take us seriously? Why should he listen to someone who thinks he has NOTHING from God in his life? A couple of weeks ago you were saying similar things. Now you have totally flip-flopped.

As it relates to MacArthur, the man is an enemy of the workings of the Holy Spirit. I have far more willingness to examine the faith of one who has received the Holy Spirit or knows next to nothing about the Bible and is clamoring in this world's darkness begging for salvation. But McArthur is without excuse.

In fact, it appears that someone was led of the Holy Spirit to publically confront and rebuke MacArthur on his false doctrine of Cessationism:

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

As for your personal "pile-on"...I actually had to check to make sure this was really you posting this. Talk about a total flip-flop in just a matter of days!

So now I'm "serving two masters" for simply trying to be balanced in my criticism of JM? I'm "tearing down Apostolic truth" for simply analyzing what constitutes doing something "in the name of Jesus"? Are you serious?

Bro, I think you have let the resident hardliners on AFF, who represent but a fraction of the Apostolic movement, to shame you into back-peddling. I can no longer take you or them seriously.

I haven't changed my position. The fact that you think I have only shows that you weren't paying attention to the nuance of my position.

My position holds that God is sovereign. Therefore, God can judge as He desires on any grounds He chooses. Therefore, I admonished the hardliners not to make such sure judgments regarding the salvation of every individual who doesn't agree with us. And, I'm sure, from the sounds of it, that you agreed with much that I might have said.

However, I also voiced as part of my position that I cannot offer any assurance regarding the salvation of any specific individual outside of Acts 2:38. Now, this side of my position is what you're seeing me address you with. And, apparently, you don't entirely agree with this part of my position.

As you can see, I haven't changed my position. I only changed the angle of approach as it relates to my position. My position admonishes all hardliners to commend souls to God and not be so certain that one is condemned. It also admonishes those like you, that Evangelical easy-believism offers no assurance. You're encountering the opposite edge of the two edged sword of my position.

Those who don't pay close attention to my positions often miss the subtle nuances that they aren't focusing in on. They typically see what they either oppose vehemently... or what they agree with whole heartedly... and they miss the subtle nuances and caveats to what I've said. Which, tend to leave me bashed by those on both sides of the debate who tend to take extreme positions.

Given the position you're demonstrating here... I have to admonish you that there is no assurance outside of Acts 2:38.

Now, if a hardliner wants to chime in, "Yeah, all those Trinitarians are definitely without a doubt destined for a devil's Hell!".... I'd have to admonish them that God is sovereign and will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy.

I didn't change my position. You're just seeing the other side of it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Okay, you are missing something here. Jesus was being accused of using Satan's power to do cast out devils. John MacArthur is not making such an accusation against Jesus. He may be wrong in his cessationist beliefs, but he is not accusing Jesus of anything. Thus I do not think he is committing blasphemy.

John MacArthur has firmly established that he believes that those who have experienced the various gifts of the Spirit are under demonic delusion. The sin is attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to being the work of Satan or the demonic. That was the crux of what the Pharisees were doing when they accused Jesus. Now, if anyone accuses us, Spirit filled believers, of demonism or demonic delusion as it relates to the gifts of God, they are committing the very same sin.

MacArthur is toast. Stick a fork in him. He's done.