Coadie, you are in favor of affirmative action and quotas. Do you support them regardless of what race the minority is?
My own company started in 1973. With locations in 3 states, we have had more minority employees than were the percentages in the markets we were in. If you do performanced and behavior based selection, it clearly serves the stakeholders better than when labeling people and trying to set quota objectives. I will make room for a high achiever anytime.
I can't set quotas of my own because we are not getting many candidates that are of a single nationality. One may be part asian or part arab. One recent hire was 25% native american. Another was part Spanish and part native Latin American. 25% of the hires come thru executive search firms. They dropped quotas 2 decades ago. They won't mess with it and shouldn't ever.
Pel, my point is that a police report is not always an objective, unbiased account of police behavior. I do believe that most often, they are an accurate account, but I also know that whenever police behavior is questionable, it is not always best to accept the nature and tone of the officers' own report as always gospel truth. They are human like evryone else.
That being said, my observation is that even in the officer's own report, he states that the professor had presented photo ID, yet the officer continued to remain in the house and call for back-up. If the professor was irate and not really happy about the officer being there in the first place, why continue to detain him in his house and call for back-up after he produced his ID?
I know that you believe that the officer was just quiet and deeply respectful as the professor berated him, but I think that they both were probably a bit upset by that point. The one thing that I agree with the President about is that cooler heads should have prevailed.
The report I read had the Prof irate before he would show ID, in fact he didn't seem too willing show ID (He was indigent), however did the cop really say that after he presented ID the cop milled around in the Profs house for a while?
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There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
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The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
The report I read had the Prof irate before he would show ID, in fact he didn't seem too willing show ID (He was indigent), however did the cop really say that after he presented ID the cop milled around in the Profs house for a while?
Yes, I quoted his report in a post earlier. He basically said that after the professor showed his Harvard ID, he stayed in the house and called for Harvard police backup. I believe the professor stated that he showed both his DL and the Harvard ID.
I'm just of the opinion that if the professor was already upset about them being in there, at the point where he did comply with the request to identify himself, the officer should have left. I think that it is very likely that the officer did get upset at how the professor was disrespecting him and you were dealing with two men who felt disrespected for whatever reason.
I know that each side will say that they were acting very civil and were the picture of genteelity...
I just don't think it should have come to this.
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Yes, I quoted his report in a post earlier. He basically said that after the professor showed his Harvard ID, he stayed in the house and called for Harvard police backup. I believe the professor stated that he showed both his DL and the Harvard ID.
I'm just of the opinion that if the professor was already upset about them being in there, at the point where he did comply with the request to identify himself, the officer should have left. I think that it is very likely that the officer did get upset at how the professor was disrespecting him and you were dealing with two men who felt disrespected for whatever reason.
I know that each side will say that they were acting very civil and were the picture of genteelity...
I just don't think it should have come to this.
That would also depend on department policy. Does he just leave? Does he call in and verify the ID like he would mine when I get pulled over?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
What does a backpack have to do with the going rate of Wal-mart stock on the Dow Jones?? I wear a backpack everyday to my office (It's Hurley...pretty cool, actually).
I think the prof was coming home from a vacation, not a lecture or a wall street meeting. With a backpack then I do not think he was dressed like a "well to do prof" but rather someone that just got back from a vacation or a hike maybe?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
"While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused at the behavior he exhibited towards me.I asked Gates to provide me with photo identification so that I could verify that he resided at ______ and so that I could radio my findings to ECC. Gates initially refused, demanding that I show him identification, but then he did supply me with a Harvard University identification card. Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, I radioed and requested the presence of the Harvard University Police"
This might be why.
His behavior was out of place. Gates refused to show ID at first and then he did. We don't know if this was standard procedure but the officer was to report the findings to ECC
Gates provided a Harvard U ID, not a drivers license
Do we know if a Harvard ID has the address on it?
Maybe not, so he radioed harvard U police to verify?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
So the nutty professor is now backing down from his threat of a lawsuit. Could it be he saw the light and realized that if he did both the 911 call and police transmissions would be released showing that the professor completely over-reacted and was trying to create a racial situation when there was nothing racial about either the 911 call or the arrest.
It's been confirmed that the lady who called 911 did not mention the race of the men she saw breaking into the home.
Unfortunately it seems the professor will get away with crying wolf this time, as he, the President and officer will be joining for beer at the White House this week sometime. The officer is a better man than I ... I would still be drawing up a lawsuit against the professor and others for their malicious allegations of racism.
I must admit that I have little patience for those with a victim complex. All it does is diminish the REAL victims!
This story may be settled with the release of the tapes. The tapes will show who was calm and who was out of control. Maybe it was both! I honestly believe I would have been arrested had I acted like the professor.
CC1 is right about white guilt because of how their ancestors treated blacks. Although I am embarrassed by racism shown by some white people in America, it doesn't appear it happened in this case. In fact, the only racism I see in this case is from the professor.
__________________ Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
So the nutty professor is now backing down from his threat of a lawsuit. Could it be he saw the light and realized that if he did both the 911 call and police transmissions would be released showing that the professor completely over-reacted and was trying to create a racial situation when there was nothing racial about either the 911 call or the arrest.
It's been confirmed that the lady who called 911 did not mention the race of the men she saw breaking into the home.
Unfortunately it seems the professor will get away with crying wolf this time, as he, the President and officer will be joining for beer at the White House this week sometime. The officer is a better man than I ... I would still be drawing up a lawsuit against the professor and others for their malicious allegations of racism.
Juan Williams puts it very succinctly - "But in this situation, the president spoke without the facts. And so you can't have a teachable moment if it's based on a lie."
To his eventual embarrassment, he wrote in his Yale application:
"As always, whitey now sits in judgment of me, preparing to cast my fate. It is your decision either to let me blow with the wind as a nonentity or to encourage the development of self. Allow me to prove myself."
Name calling coupled with a strawman argument.
Strawman argument says he is accepted to Yale or relagated to being a nonentity.
In tracking the outcome, it appears he is highly paid by Harvard and blowing in the wind is part of his daily responsibliity?
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