Tattoos

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Ok, why would you not get a devil tatoo? What if someone DID want a devil tatoo. I know a guy who says he's a Christian (would fit in with alot of folks here) who said he was going to shave his head and have devil horns tatooed on his head. He could grow hair to cover it up, or shave his head when he wanted them to show.

As for "old school" mindsets, that is simply an unfounded opinion. Because I'm not going to say "anything goes" if you want to tatoo a leaf on your arm, or a teardrop under your eye, or devils horn on your head, or tatoo your face like mike tyson, or tatoo your whole body (like the pic of the guy in this thread) well thats all right, God doesn't care. Whatever. Not everything that has ever been taught is 100% completely wrong.

The problem is, so many have come up under legalistic rules and never learned to live by Biblical principles, and now that many have shed that legalism they can't even comprehend principles.

bump

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Whose denying this?

However the fact is our bodies are still the temple of the Holy Ghost. I don't think God wants us looking like some freaks or like a camilion (like that guy who had his who face tatooed). I don't think it brings glory to God when we have folks runing around looking like Todd Bentley.

Just because some folks preach against tatoos and such, but over eat doesn't mean their wrong preaching against those things. Their error is only that they aren't preaching the whole council of God, only things THEY are comfortable with.

Am I saying God doesn't save people with tatooos-absolutely not (duh, hopefully I have a better reputation than that around here), but I don't think he saves us for us to do that to ourselves POST-salvation.

I am not willing to say all tatoos are sin, I don't know that I would go that far, but to me it certainly seems unwise. I don't think you'd go to hell for getting one even after your a Christian (I don't believe salvation is that fickle that you do one thing and pass from justification to condemnation). But I do think the argument that we are the temple of the Holy Ghost is VALID.
FINE, I get it, man made standards are not Bible based, their legalsitic, and all that good stuff, it turn salvation into works (on some level). AMEN, no argument here. But I think we fool ourselves to say God cares absolutely nothing about the outside.

In response to Jeffery's post (and NOW's amen) I say, no one is doubting that we shouldn't use the body for sin. I think 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21 are quite clear on the things that we shouldn't do.

That said, I still believe the Bible gives us principles. Does the bible say not to smoke dope? Its legal in part in california. I have a friend whose mother very much considers herself a Christian, who teaches SS, and is all kinds of involved in her church (not oneness) but smokes pot. "My friend says, whats the harm in it, its not like cocaine or LSD, it just chills you out, plus its legal. Wheres the Bible say you can't smoke pot, it a natural substance?"

I don't know, maybe some of you believe in dope smokin' Christians, I don't. But if we apply the same logic many are applying in this thread, there is no Biblical response against it.

I don't believe that "holiness" is all about dress (I don't believe its hardly any about dress) but the Bible still says to dress modestly. I don't think 1 Corinthians 11 says a woman can't cut or trim her hair birth to death, but it still says a woman should have long hair.

Personally I think there is too much whittling down the word of God. I don't want legalism or salvation by works, but neither do I want Christianity Lite. It seems to me that alot of people simply won't stand for anything.

*here is what I said earlier. I just realized I did not have the "not" in my sentance, thus it read "I am willing to say all tatoos are sin."

No wonder I was getting hammered, it now reads correctly.

Originally Posted by notofworks

Come on, Jason...you're backed into a corner here. It's ok to say, "Uncle" and tell me you support my desire to get a tattoo!

I've already addressed this:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

But ultimately, I would think this falls into the Romans 14 category [christian liberty and preferences]. Its something I wouldn't do, and would discourage others not to do, but I'm not going to judge someone over it or break fellowship over it. I've got to answer to God for my own decision, I'll let everyone who claims to be a Christian stand before God for themselves. Its not my job to judge another mans servant. HOWEVER, if I'm teaching/preaching on it, I am teaching against it based on biblical prinicples.

I don't belive that the simple act of having a tattoo is sin, and I'm not willing to take it to the extreme and say if you have any kind of tattoo its a sin, though I still don't understand why a Christian would want one, or how God would be glorified by it. I'll save the rest of my thoughts for tomorrow.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by notofworks

As usual, you say it very, very well. Thanks for your words of wisdom!

Thank you for the very kind words. Truly.

[A.W. Bowman]

It seems that perhaps my initial post was not understood as I had intended.

The lesson here is that God has given no man the right, privilege or authority to add to or diminish from the Law of God (Deuteronomy 12:32, Torah. Instructions in Righteousness). The only person who was authorized to modify these instructions was their author, Jesus Christ. And, He did not remove one jot or title from those instructions (or He lied). Rather, what He did in Matthew 5,6, & 7 was to open up the scriptures to a deeper meaning, understanding and application of those instructions.

No, we are not free to make a buffet out of God's word, to pick and choose what we will adhere to and what we will discard, according to our own knowledge, understanding or desires. Doing violence to the word of God will earn us nothing but God's condemnation, regardless of our apparent motivation or good intentions! Teachers of the word of God will be judged by a more strict measurement, because you have a great influence over the lives of others. Therefore, when you twist the word to say what you want it to mean, don't be surprised when the congregation goes into rebellion, members leave, the church splits, or the members fall pray to a perpetual immaturity and continued dependent on you and your guidance, rather than on the word and the Spirit.You have succeeded in making them followers of you. rather than to transform into true disciples of Jesus, the true Master that you were suppose to lead them to. (Matthew 28:20, Ephesians 5:1) Teach men to imitate your faith, your integrity and your good works as you follow Christ, but don't be guilty of standing in their way of establishing their own personal, intimate relationship with Him. Neither the saint nor Christ requires your approval for the form that their fellowship takes! That is like attempting to dictate the kind/type of relationship your daughter is to have with her husband - after she is married. And, sometimes we wonder why so many marriages fail? Unfulfilled expectations is the prime reason.

News flash - Not even Jesus of Nazareth, the son of God, observed (obeyed, performed) all of the 'Law of God' (aka, the Law of Mosses) that He said He fulfilled in its entirety! But, to understand that precept, one must be able to view the entire Bible from a Hebraic perspective, rather than just from a Western point of view. For those who can move between these two worldviews, congratulations, now go teach. For those who have difficulty with this concept, know that it is not an easy task - go study a little more.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

It seems that perhaps my initial post was not understood as I had intended.

The lesson here is that God has given no man the right, privilege or authority to add to or diminish from the Law of God (Deuteronomy 12:32, Torah. Instructions in Righteousness). The only person who was authorized to modify these instructions was their author, Jesus Christ. And, He did not remove one jot or title from those instructions (or He lied). Rather, what He did in Matthew 5,6, & 7 was to open up the scriptures to a deeper meaning, understanding and application of those instructions.

No, we are not free to make a buffet out of God's word, to pick and choose what we will adhere to and what we will discard, according to our own knowledge, understanding or desires. Doing violence to the word of God will earn us nothing but God's commendation, regardless of our apparent motivation or good intentions! Teachers of the word of God will be judged by a more strict measurement, because you have a great influence over the lives of others. Therefore, when you twist the word to say what you want it to mean, don't be surprised when the congregation goes into rebellion, members leave, the church splits, or the members fall pray to a perpetual immaturity and continued dependent on you and your guidance, rather than on the word and the Spirit.You have succeeded in making them followers of you. rather than to transform into true disciples of Jesus, the true Master that you were suppose to lead them to. (Matthew 28:20, Ephesians 5:1) Teach men to imitate your faith, your integrity and your good works as you follow Christ, but don't be guilty of standing in their way of establishing their own personal, intimate relationship with Him. Neither the saint nor Christ requires your approval for the form that their fellowship takes! That is like attempting to dictate the kind/type of relationship your daughter is to have with her husband - after she is married. And, sometimes we wonder why so many marriages fail? Unfulfilled expectations is the prime reason.

News flash - Not even Jesus of Nazareth, the son of God, observed (obeyed, performed) all of the 'Law of God' (aka, the Law of Mosses) that He said He fulfilled in its entirety! But, to understand that precept, one must be able to view the entire Bible from a Hebraic perspective, rather than just from a Western point of view. For those who can move between these two worldviews, congratulations, now go teach. For those who have difficulty with this concept, know that it is not an easy task - go study a little more.

So then did I misunderstand what you posted? Obviously, I see no problem with tattoos.

I noticed something in this post and I'm wondering if it was an innocent word misusage or something else. You said, "Doing violence to the word of God will earn us nothing but God's commendation, regardless of our apparent motivation or good intentions!" Did you mean "Condemnation" rather than "Commendation"? A "Commendation" is a good thing and I'm not understanding how someone who "does violence" to God's Word could be commended. Just wanted to be clear on what you are saying.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by notofworks

So then did I misunderstand what you posted? Obviously, I see no problem with tattoos.

I noticed something in this post and I'm wondering if it was an innocent word misusage or something else. You said, "Doing violence to the word of God will earn us nothing but God's commendation, regardless of our apparent motivation or good intentions!" Did you mean "Condemnation" rather than "Commendation"? A "Commendation" is a good thing and I'm not understanding who someone who "does violence" to God's Word could be commended. Just wanted to be clear on what you are saying.

No, my friend, you understood me correctly. AND, you are most correct, my nimble fingers got in the way of good communication.

I'll fix that 'commendation' error NOW! And, thanks!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

No, my friend, you understood me correctly. AND, you are most correct, my nimble fingers got in the way of good communication.

I'll fix that 'commendation' error NOW! And, thanks!

Yeah, I do it all the time! In fact, I made a big typo in the post you responded to and I just had to go correct it! I figured you meant "Condemnation" but just wanted to make sure!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

*here is what I said earlier. I just realized I did not have the "not" in my sentance, thus it read "I am willing to say all tatoos are sin."

No wonder I was getting hammered, it now reads correctly.

I've already addressed this:

I don't belive that the simple act of having a tattoo is sin, and I'm not willing to take it to the extreme and say if you have any kind of tattoo its a sin, though I still don't understand why a Christian would want one, or how God would be glorified by it. I'll save the rest of my thoughts for tomorrow.

Bolded: It's really not for you to understand. Another person's tattoo isn't in your field of responsibility. Each person must stand before God and give an account. Jason, you can't give an account for my tattoo and I can't give an account for you lack of one.

"Grace" is more than a theology debated!! It is a lifestyle! You may have understood a "Theology" but "Grace" goes much deeper! Grace takes away our personal, petty, dislikes and turns them into something we love! Grace takes us to God's Word and causes us to ONLY prohibit what God prohibits. Grace gives us great liberty, but not the liberty to expand on the forbiddens.

[Cindy]

Were tattoos called tattoos in biblical times? Or when the bible was translated into English?

[Ev. Duane Williams]

I have two. One on each upper arm(I had planned on 7 all together, as would any wannabe rock star). My wife has four!! We both got them before we were born again. I have mixed feelings about them. I don't plan on getting any more, but I wouldn't condemn anyone else for getting one.