Saved Without A Pastor?? - Page 16

Tithesmeister · #**151** 06-19-2018, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Paths

Thank you.

In the Plan of God, He has always used dedicated men and women to do His will.

The problem arises when we refuse to acknowledge His hand in our lives.

Proverbs 16:18.. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall...

That'll preach!

Old Paths · #**152** 06-19-2018, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

The OP was "Can you be saved without a pastor?"

There are several points that could be made about this subject. Here is just one.

The five fold ministry is for the church, right? The church is already saved, right?

Let's go to the word.

Bible, King James Version

Eph.4 Verses 11 to 12

[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Which of these groups are NOT saved already?

I have said in the past that there are really only two reasons for the Church/Ministry to be in existence today.

1. To save the lost.

2. To keep the saved from being lost.

.

1ofthechosen · #**153** 06-19-2018, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Can you help me out here? I don't see any reference to a pastor in any of these scriptures.

Ummm. Who are these? "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God."

Who is this "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding." Because He's foreshadowing something to come and you cant believe He's saying for the Jews and not the Gentiles. He's talking about the Apostles and the church. Anytime it refers to them it's referring to us, because we've been grafted in.

There is a 5 fold ministry but there is also Pastors in His church after His own heart. These watch for your soul. So on judgement day do you believe that they are going to have a panel of Evangelist, prophets, teachers, a apostle, and a pastor to give account for you?

Well if you believe that ain't wonder what Evangelist Benincasa is going to say on your behalf?

1ofthechosen · #**154** 06-19-2018, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

The OP was "Can you be saved without a pastor?"

There are several points that could be made about this subject. Here is just one.

The five fold ministry is for the church, right? The church is already saved, right?

Let's go to the word.

Bible, King James Version

Eph.4 Verses 11 to 12

[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Which of these groups are NOT saved already?

Huh? No one who is alive is saved yet. You were saved, you are saved, you are being saved.

Tithesmeister · #**155** 06-19-2018, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Huh? No one who is alive is saved yet. You were saved, you are saved, you are being saved.

And . . . you are contradicting yourself.

Old Paths · #**156** 06-19-2018, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Huh? No one who is alive is saved yet. You were saved, you are saved, you are being saved.

Amen!

My old Dad used to say that "salvation is conditional" and he was "living a saved life" and as long as he "lived the saved life he would be SAVED when the Lord came".

Makes sense to me....

Evang.Benincasa · #**157** 06-19-2018, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

And . . . you are contradicting yourself.

No he didn't contradict himself.

Tithesmeister · #**158** 06-19-2018, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Ummm. Who are these? "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God."

Please show me where it says anywhere that a pastor has the rule over you, or me. Then explain how this passage of scripture below reconciles with your doctrine.

Bible, King James Version

Matt.20 Verses 25 to 28

[25] But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
[26] But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
[27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
[28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Who is this "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding." Because He's foreshadowing something to come and you cant believe He's saying for the Jews and not the Gentiles. He's talking about the Apostles and the Bible,

I'm glad you asked. God is talking to the Hebrews who were about to be taken into Babylonian captivity. If you can produce scripture saying otherwise, I'd be glad to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Anytime it refers to them it's referring to us, because we've been grafted in.

In that case you'd better get to sacrificing bulls and goats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

There is a 5 fold ministry but there is also Pastors in His church after His own heart. These watch for your soul. So on judgement day do you believe that they are going to have a panel of Evangelist, prophets, teachers, a apostle, and a pastor to give account for you?

The soul that you reference above is not referring to the immortal soul IMO. It is referring to your life. This is distinguished from the rational immortal soul, according to Strong's. It appears to mean human life, as it does many times, but not always in the Bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Well if you believe that ain't wonder what Evangelist Benincasa is going to say on your behalf?

I love Brother Benincsa, but I have a much greater advocate than he.

Tithesmeister · #**159** 06-19-2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No he didn't contradict himself.

It certainly appears that way to me. He said "No one who is alive is saved yet", and then he said "You are saved". What am I missing?

How about what Jesus said?

Luke.7
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

This woman was alive, and she was saved.

1ofthechosen · #**160** 06-19-2018, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

It certainly appears that way to me. He said "No one who is alive is saved yet", and then he said "You are saved". What am I missing?

How about what Jesus said?

Luke.7
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

This woman was alive, and she was saved.

What did Paul say? Phillipians 3:10-11 "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."

So what is the great Apostle Paul saying in the bold? That he might be saved. This was late in his life, and if he wasn't saved yet, at this point he is still saying "if by any means I might attain." So what does that tell you? No one has received salvation yet while still living. If the Apostle Paul said this I know I'm in the book.