Women Preachers

[Sister Alvear]

The translation of Deborah as “mother” in Judges 5:7, really the Hebrew word used really means “female chief.”

[Sister Alvear]

Deborah not only judged but was also a prophetess, she executed God’s purpose to His people. Deborah and Samuel were the only two to carry the title of both prophet and judge. We believe the infallible word of God. Why would God allow a woman to be written about in the Bible, acknowledging her authority and anointing? If not for anything else, an example!

[Sister Alvear]

Of all the women in the Bible the story of Huldah most inspires me...what a woman! She never went to war like Deborah or killed to protect her people like Jael; she didn’t nurse a sick aging king like Abishag or build cities like Sheerah. She did impart truth to a nation that was spiritually sick and dying because they were worshipping idols and false gods.. 4 times that I can think of she said to men, This sayth the Lord....Never forget she was a temple prophet who validated a scroll, called “the book of the law [or covenant].

[Sister Alvear]

Do you think God calling me to be a missionary are at odds with God’s “explicit” will, if so it would cast serious doubt upon the consistency of God.

[Sasha]

Interesting writings and thoughts, Sis. Alvear. God truly bless you.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

1 Timothy 2:12-15.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

This is not dealing with "church" authority but authority in the "home." The context proves it. Paul uses Adam and Eve as the example of authority. What relationship did Adam and Eve have? They were husband and wife, not pastor and sheep. Since there is no Greek word for husband and wife, the word "man" and "woman" is also translated "husband" and "wife", and based on the context these words should have been translated as such

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Esaias, If you won't listen to Sis Alvear, I don't imagine you will pay any attention to what I say, but this is a Forum where we can discuss what we believe without getting mad. Right!

I believe you are giving the wrong context for this,

Esaias Wrote,

The context begins with this:

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;"

Notice--(all mankind---anthropos---all mankind)

He goes on with this:

" I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting."

(everywhere---not just in church)

And then this:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."

silence---hēsychia---quiet, quietness -not muzzeld. There's another word for that.
subjection---And this is as it should be. She should recognize her husband as the authority in the home.

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

ursurp authority, is to demand and seize the authority---over who? Not anthropos---which is all mankind.
man---aner---Vine's Words: Fellow, Husband, Man, Sir

Where do we see “aner” used?

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband (aner) is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body

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1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband (aner) of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach

;

If the word man had been “anthropos” then a woman would not have authority over any man. That means that all men would have the authority over the woman.

Esaias wrote,

The context is clearly the church order. Prayer, godly behaviour, and learning, and teaching. The woman is to learn is silence with all subjection, and is not to teach. Nor is the woman to usurp authority over the man, but rather to be in silence.

Since 'but to be in silence' is the contrast to 'usurp authority over the man', it follows then that a woman usurps authority over the man by not being silent and by teaching.

The very next subject is the qualifications for oversight of the church and for the offices of 'bishop' and 'deacon'.

The previous subject was established as " As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,"

So, the CONTEXT is Paul's instructions to Timothy who at that time had the oversight of the church in Ephesus. He was being told to get a grip on the TEACHING GOING ON in the church. He was given instructions in prayer in the church, and the role of women in the church in regard to teaching, and then he was given instructions in how to establish the eldership of the church, in order to perpetuate the oversight into future generations.

He concludes with warnings about the rise of false doctrines, false teachers, people departing from the apostolic faith and doctrine, ie departing from the apostolic order, and then finally instructions about church discipline.

The context is clearly order in the church.

Esaias, you have not shown that the 2nd chapter is “ The context is clearly order in the church.

You quoted from the opening of the 1st ch. “that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine," And then Paul mentions several false things that may have been trying to come into the church, but women teaching is not one of them. As it seems that you are trying to say.

What did Paul warn against?

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

(The important thing is love, a pure heart and faith unfeigned.) and then Paul gives him another charge.

1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

And then in the 2nd ch, Paul gives Timothy farther instructions, but I see nothing about church.

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men

;

Then he goes on to tell women to dress modest. I don't believe he means just in church, but everywhere. And to do good works. Does that mean, just do good works in church?

And then , my understanding is that he is to tell the women not to try to teach or ursurp authority over their husbands, but to be in subjection to him, because he has the authority.

And there is a good reason for that. Did you wives ever try to teach your husband anything?
I believe it was Aquila, that brought out, when a man hears a woman's voice, it's like background radio. (Probably not his exact words)

[renee819]

You men that believe that a woman is to remain silent, not to teach or preach, do you resent us women on here? Because we are all teaching each other.

Do you believe this Forum should be, just for men?

[renee819]

Of course you all know this, but when there is a controversy about a scripture, we must look up the Greek meaning's. And the word silence is used in 3 different ways, that I have found.

SILENCE----sigao----English Words used in KJV:
hold (one's) peace 4
keep silence 3
keep close 1
keep secret 1

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence (sigao) in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law

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SILENCE---hēsychia-----feminine of <G2272> (hesuchios); (as noun) stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle or language :- quietness, silence

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence (hesychia) with all subjection

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SILENCE----phimoo---from phimos (a muzzle); to muzzle :- muzzle

1 Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence (phimoo) the ignorance of foolish men:

I don't believe that God ever wanted to “muzzle” the women in the church. But the teaching is that they are to learn in quietness, to keep the peace, not to bustle or cause a problem. To be under the subjection of their husbands.

[Sister Alvear]

Most instructive is Paul’s long list of personal greetings in chapter 16. He begins by commending—not a man but a woman—Phoebe, whom he addresses as “our sister . . . a servant of the Church which is at Cenchrea” (16:1–2). The word for servant is diakonos, which appears in both masculine and feminine forms in the NT. Surprisingly, in this instance, though it is used of a woman, its form in the Greek is masculine even as it is whenever Paul speaks of himself as a diakonos, servant, of Christ. Diakonos was the accepted title indicating pastoral leadership in the Church. In short, Paul recognizes Phoebe as a respected minister of the Word. There is no distinction drawn between Phoebe and say, Timothy because of gender. The very fact that Paul encourages the believers in Rome to “receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints” indicates that there may have been some latent reluctance to submit to her ministry because she was a woman.

In 16:3–5, Paul does not greet Aquila, “my fellow worker,” and his good wife, Prisca. Rather, he greets them as a husband and wife team, describing both as “my fellow-workers in Christ Jesus.” Both equally share in the ministry in “the church in their house.” Likewise, Paul greets “Mary, who has worked hard for you” (16:6). The verb “work” or “labor” which Paul uses of Mary is the same used elsewhere to speak of ministerial labor in the gospel. The prepositional phrase, “worked hard for you,” can also be rendered “worked hard among you or over you,” as Paul speaks of himself in reference to the Galatians (4:11). Mary had oversight of some important ministry in the Church at Rome.

Then Paul greets “Andronicus and Junias,” his kinsmen and fellow prisoners (16:7). Junias is also rendered in the feminine case, Junia, in many of the most ancient manuscripts. This may well have been another husband and wife team. What is of special interest is that they were “In Christ” before Paul. Furthermore, Paul classes them as among the original core of apostles. It is entirely possible, then, Junia was one of the original resurrection witnesses, and that she too was designated as an apostle by virtue of having seen the Lord. There is support for this in the writings of the influential fourth century Church father, Chrysostom, who commented on this verse by saying, “And indeed to be Apostles at all is a great thing . . . Oh! how great is the devotion of this woman (Junia), that she should be even counted worthy of the appellation of apostle!”

[Sister Alvear]

Yes and I do know it means servant also...it is in that thought that I am a missionary...We are all just servants in one way however He calls us for different callings to fulfill servanthood...It is not always making cups of tea or knitting...