All trinatarians are lost! - Page 16

Esaias · #**151** 01-02-2019, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

1 John 5:11 read that eternal life is in God's Son.

If the life we are going to live is eternal, and that life is in God's Son, then God's Son is likewise eternal, meaning there is no end to the Son of God, in any capacity. What will (apparently?) come to an end is the Son of God's rule over the universe; He will deliver it up to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24) after the Father has made all of His enemies His footstool according to the Psalm 110:1-2 prophecy.

Christ will not cease to be King. He is to reign until His enemies are made His footstool. This does not mean He stops reigning at that point, however.

A King reigning in the midst of his enemies means he rules and conquers the rebels. When the rebels are defeated, he doesn't abdicate the throne, because what then was the point of it all? Rather, once the enemies are defeated, his rule is now unopposed.

Delivering the Kingdom up to the Father does not mean Christ abdicates His throne. Rather, it means the now all-conquered dominion is subject to God without any rebellion going on.

Isaiah 9:6 says the increase of Messiah's reign will have NO END. This talk of Jesus ceasing to be king at some point is bad theology.

hometown guy · #**152** 01-02-2019, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Christ will not cease to be King. He is to reign until His enemies are made His footstool. This does not mean He stops reigning at that point, however.

A King reigning in the midst of his enemies means he rules and conquers the rebels. When the rebels are defeated, he doesn't abdicate the throne, because what then was the point of it all? Rather, once the enemies are defeated, his rule is now unopposed.

Delivering the Kingdom up to the Father does not mean Christ abdicates His throne. Rather, it means the now all-conquered dominion is subject to God without any rebellion going on.

Isaiah 9:6 says the increase of Messiah's reign will have NO END. This talk of Jesus ceasing to be king at some point is bad theology.

You act like you are talking about 2 different people. Once he is done with the role he doesn’t need that role anymore. Doesn’t mean he is changing aperrance or anything.

Esaias · #**153** 01-02-2019, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

You act like you are talking about 2 different people. Once he is done with the role he doesn’t need that role anymore. Doesn’t mean he is changing aperrance or anything.

I said nothing about "changing appearance". The fact you would think in that manner indicates you are still having trouble with Oneness, in that you are trying to reconcile Oneness with an innate sense of there being two "people". Christ is a man, the incarnation of God. As such He is not two persons, but one God existing in two realities, human and divine.

His human reality includes His reign as Messiah, the Son of David. It does not end. He does not cease to be the Son of David (Messiah). He will forever reign as Son of David, as Christ (Messiah). When His enemies have been defeated, He will have been victorious over all, and will present the now-subdued Kingdom to God as having been wholly pacified.

And the eternal purpose of God (which is God-manifestation) will stand forever. Oneness is, in fact, the only theology which actually makes sense of it all. And Oneness theology necessarily leads to the conclusion that Christ will reign AS CHRIST throughout the ages. Because the glorified Christ, the Incarnation of God, is the archetype of God-manifestation. And God-manifestation is THE Mystery of the apostolic faith.

Esaias · #**154** 01-02-2019, 01:16 PM

The following verses indicate the SON OF DAVID, MESSIAH will reign forever:

Isaiah 9:6-7
2Sam 7:16
Psalm 89:35-37
Heb 1:8
2 Peter 1:11
Luke 1:32-33

These are just a sample of verses indicating quite clearly that Messiah will continue as King forever. They specifically reference THE SON being KING for EVER.

Now, which verses tell us that Jesus will in some way CEASE to reign? Or that the Son will cease to reign? Or that the Son"ship" will cease?

Apostolic1ness · #**155** 01-02-2019, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

The following verses indicate the SON OF DAVID, MESSIAH will reign forever:

Isaiah 9:6-7
2Sam 7:16
Psalm 89:35-37
Heb 1:8
2 Peter 1:11
Luke 1:32-33

These are just a sample of verses indicating quite clearly that Messiah will continue as King forever. They specifically reference THE SON being KING for EVER.

Now, which verses tell us that Jesus will in some way CEASE to reign? Or that the Son will cease to reign? Or that the Son"ship" will cease?

It would be awful to get to heaven and not see the glorified Man Jesus but only know there is an invisible God somewhere in our midst.

Esaias · #**156** 01-02-2019, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It would be awful to get to heaven and not see the glorified Man Jesus but only know there is an invisible God somewhere in our midst.

EXACTLY.

hometown guy · #**157** 01-02-2019, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It would be awful to get to heaven and not see the glorified Man Jesus but only know there is an invisible God somewhere in our midst.

What does that have to do with the sonship ending. You all put God in a box. He can manifest himself and never cease to still be God everywhere else, invisible and visable. Not sure what this has to do with an end to the sonship.

Esaias · #**158** 01-02-2019, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

What does that have to do with the sonship ending. You all put God in a box. He can manifest himself and never cease to still be God everywhere else, invisible and visable. Not sure what this has to do with an end to the sonship.

*I'm* not seeing where anybody established what this "sonship" even is that keeps being talked about as if it were anything other than the state of being the Son, let alone if and when it ends and what would or would not be involved as a result of it ending?

So, like I said before, the Son reigns forever, as the Bible itself says. Therefore, there is no end to Him being Son, nor of His reign AS SON. (Which to me sounds like no end to the "sonship" Which makes perfect sense: if sonship ends, then He is no longer Son. But the Son abides forever, therefore the sonship is forever.)

Apostolic1ness · #**159** 01-03-2019, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

What does that have to do with the sonship ending. You all put God in a box. He can manifest himself and never cease to still be God everywhere else, invisible and visable. Not sure what this has to do with an end to the sonship.

I think you should define terms. what is sonship? are you saying sonship is simply the fleshly manifestation of God born of a woman died and resurected and glorified sitting on the throne? Or are you saying sonship is the state of the man Christ Jesus as an obedient man to the Spirit of God?

1ofthechosen · #**160** 01-04-2019, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

If the office of Son has ceased then He is no longer Son.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer our Mediator.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer Messiah.

If the office of Son has ceased He is no longer our High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Somebody show where the apostles explained "office of Son", how it is different than Jesus being the Son of God, and where and when this "office" will cease.

Not ceased been fulfilled. The Law was fulfilled doesnt mean that it ceased to exist.