If you have to wear make-up to be accepted....

[Abiding Now]

I want to declare to one and all that I have never worn makeup or been called Jezebel.














































My wife would not approve.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

You are right the heart is the issue, so why do you feel the need to shave?
take a shower, wear deodorant, and comb your hair?

Why even take a shower, wear deodorant, comb your hair, and put on clothing?
Why even wear clothing made out of fiber? We've got it ALL wrong... since the Lord God in the book of Genesis showed us just how we are to dress - in animal skins. I want to know why we don't dress in animal skins anymore! After all, it was what GOD HIMSELF made for Adam and Eve to wear... lol... If we really want to get back to the "basics", what happened to wearing animal skins?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Passages spoken in Enoch are found throughout the bible.

Perhaps it is the other way around.

Passages spoken in the Bible are found throughout the book of Enoch.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I'm not sure it's a strong argument to equate kosmeo and kosmos as something to always be viewed as negative.

Kosmeo, as you stated, meaning "primarily to arrange", and Kosmos meaning "a harmonious arrangement". I don't see anything negative here, but I do see "order".

In your argument, I can certainly see and feel a very strong case for temperance, order and modesty. I could take that to the bank.

"Kosmetikos" would naturally fall under "arranged", categorically, but I would hesitate to make a strong connection between the two (Kosmos and Kosmetikos) as something not to love.

It rather reminds me of the stretch, IMO, of equating "covering" as a correlation between the cherubims "covering" the ark and our hair being a "covering", just because someone decided to run a word check throughout the Old and New Testament. There are a lot of words and meanings that have no correlation at all, except that the word description was appropriate.

Speaking to "love not the world", I believe there are elements of things we should not "love", but that doesn't make it taboo. For instance, the "love" of money was the problem, not the money itself. I can see "covetousness" as being the issue with both - money and things of this world.

The world, or kosmos is translated world in just about every context, including God so loved the world/kosmos, so no, not every context of the word is negative.

But our associations with the world, and the system the world tempts us to embrace, is always negative.

The way I see 1 Timothy 2:9 is as follows:

When a woman goes about to adorn herself, that is, to order and arrange her personal appearance in order to go out in public, there are certain Biblical requirements she ought to consider. In choosing how to appear, she should avoid immodest apparel, or clothing that might cause unrighteous arousal in another person. She should appear bashful, without attention being drawn to her sexuality, so men are more likely to not lust after her. Her clothing and general apparel and appearance should not cost a lot of money to put together.

Is the word make-up mentioned? I concede that no, it is not. But what is the ultimate purpose of make-up? To, in some way, alter and enhance one's appearance, especially to create an artificial level of attractiveness, usually so the one wearing the product feels more confident or in some way better about her appearance.

This can (not always) smack of pride and lust. Especially among the non-believers of the kosmos. And for this reason, to not be like the world, or of the world, it is reasonable to suggest that the use of make-up should be abstained from, not for any salvific purposes (per se), but to further adorn the Gospel of God as an act of holy separation from the very kosmos that uses cosmetics for all sorts of ungodly reasons.

So ask yourself, what's the difference between using make-up to enhance one's attraction, and wearing high heels and push-up bras, not to mention thong underwear.

It's all designed to create an appearance that accentuates the physical so as to impress others while making the person appearing that way, feel better about themselves.

Does any woman of God want to be an object of another person's lusts, if she could do anything to help make sure she wasn't?

And before anyone jumps about how men ought to control themselves, let's remember we are talking about lost sinners who have no desire to control themselves, as much as any saintly man who, through the Holy Spirit, will look away and pray through so temptation doesn't overcome him.

Abstain from all appearances of evil. If any married woman here feels even the remotest sense of righteous jealousy for her husband when an attractive in make-up woman walks past and he has a hard time not looking, then do on to others as you would have others do to your husband, i.e. don't, by your outward adornment, be a possible stumblingblock to any man in the world.

So, out of love and concern for your fellow human, it is sometimes better to forego a nicer physical appearance, including the use of make-up, since, after all, your husband is the only person that needs to look upon you with sexual feeling and desire. It's not the business of any other man out there.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The world, or kosmos is translated world in just about every context, including God so loved the world/kosmos, so no, not every context of the word is negative.

But our associations with the world, and the system the world tempts us to embrace, is always negative.

The way I see 1 Timothy 2:9 is as follows:

When a woman goes about to adorn herself, that is, to order and arrange her personal appearance in order to go out in public, there are certain Biblical requirements she ought to consider. In choosing how to appear, she should avoid immodest apparel, or clothing that might cause unrighteous arousal in another person. She should appear bashful, without attention being drawn to her sexuality, so men are more likely to not lust after her. Her clothing and general apparel and appearance should not cost a lot of money to put together.

Is the word make-up mentioned? I concede that no, it is not. But what is the ultimate purpose of make-up? To, in some way, alter and enhance one's appearance, especially to create an artificial level of attractiveness, usually so the one wearing the product feels more confident or in some way better about her appearance.

This can (not always) smack of pride and lust. Especially among the non-believers of the kosmos. And for this reason, to not be like the world, or of the world, it is reasonable to suggest that the use of make-up should be abstained from, not for any salvific purposes (per se), but to further adorn the Gospel of God as an act of holy separation from the very kosmos that uses cosmetics for all sorts of ungodly reasons.

So ask yourself, what's the difference between using make-up to enhance one's attraction, and wearing high heels and push-up bras, not to mention thong underwear.

It's all designed to create an appearance that accentuates the physical so as to impress others while making the person appearing that way, feel better about themselves.

Do any woman of God want to be an object of another person's lusts, if she could do anything to help make sure she wasn't?

And before anyone jumps about how men ought to control themselves, let's remember we are talking about lost sinners who have no desire to control themselves, as much as any saintly man who, through the Holy Spirit, will look away and pray through so temptation doesn't overcome him.

Abstain from all appearances of evil. If any married woman here feels even the remotest sense of righteous jealousy for their husband when an attractive in make-up woman walks past and he has a hard time not looking, then do on to others as you would have others do to your husband, i.e. don't, by your outward adornment, be a possible stumblingblock to any man in the world.

So, out of love and concern for your fellow human, it is sometimes better to forego a nicer physical appearance, including the use of make-up, since, after all, your husband is the only person that needs to look upon you with sexual feeling and desire. It's not the business of any other man out there.

A modestly dressed woman could, can and does incite the attentions of a man - beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all.

I view modestly applied makeup in the same vein as hosiery, it smooths the complexion of the skin. That is the purpose.

Anything can be overly and ostentatiously done. A drummer could be heavy handed with his drumsticks and ruin the music.

We certainly can, emphatically, make a salfivic issue out of modesty. It is simply my opinion that handing down a firm ruling while stating this firm ruling will not keep you out of heaven is a bit problematic.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

If the writings of Enoch could be verified to have been written in the time frame of Moses, then perhaps more serious attention could be given to them, but since the writings are for the most part known to have been written many years after the gospels... most scholars believe that the writings of Enoch borrowed from the apostles writings to somehow make the writings seem more authentic.

I wish I said that.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Is the word make-up mentioned? I concede that no, it is not. But what is the ultimate purpose of make-up? To, in some way, alter and enhance one's appearance, especially to create an artificial level of attractiveness, usually so the one wearing the product feels more confident or in some way better about her appearance.

This can (not always) smack of pride and lust. Especially among the non-believers of the kosmos. And for this reason, to not be like the world, or of the world, it is reasonable to suggest that the use of make-up should be abstained from, not for any salvific purposes (per se), but to further adorn the Gospel of God as an act of holy separation from the very kosmos that uses cosmetics for all sorts of ungodly reasons.

So ask yourself, what's the difference between using make-up to enhance one's attraction, and wearing high heels and push-up bras, not to mention thong underwear.

It's all designed to create an appearance that accentuates the physical so as to impress others while making the person appearing that way, feel better about themselves.

So... your wife doesn't wear heels? I mean... how far are you going to go to stretch this passage... because just about anything a woman puts on or... doesn't put on is going to cause men to lust...

See.. when you try to hit specifics about what a woman should or shouldn't wear, you run into these issues. Before long, there will be nothing left for a woman to put on except the animal skins the Lord God decreed way back in Genesis for us.

The bottom line for all of this discussion really ought to be about the heart.

If a woman with a godly heart wears a little makeup to cover some blemishes, and look presentable, and has a modest wedding ring on her finger, and a cute bracelet on her wrist and is wearing a loose fitting, attractive pantsuit .... what is wrong with that? Compare her to the next woman I'll describe...

How about a woman whose hair looks like she spent 5 hours putting it up with jewelry hanging out of it everywhere, waxed eyebrows, clear lip gloss, light base, a purse decked out in jewels and gold, and a huge rock for a wedding ring who is prancing around in a tight fitting long skirt showing her derriere in stiletto shoes (a sight which I've seen too many times to count at conferences)... how is this woman any better dressed than the first woman I've described?

To answer truthfully, you would have to say that the first woman I described looks more godly than the second....

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I wish I said that.

You've added plenty of posts with studied informative facts. I certainly wouldn't cry over this one. Glad to see you posting recently. I read ALL of your posts!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

A modestly dressed woman could, can and does incite the attentions of a man - beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all.

I view modestly applied makeup in the same vein as hosiery, it smooths the complexion of the skin. That is the purpose.

Anything can be overly and ostentatiously done. A drummer could be heavy handed with his drumsticks and ruin the music.

We certainly can, emphatically, make a salfivic issue out of modesty. It is simply my opinion that handing down a firm ruling while stating this firm ruling will not keep you out of heaven is a bit problematic.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I wish I said that.

It's okay.