McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by n david

Me, too. God worked it out better than I could have.

Render not evil for evil, bless them that persecute you, overcome evil with good yet works in 2015.

[Sabby]

I recognized Bill Davies. He founded the church in McMinnville over thirty years ago. He was known as a hardliner then, and apparently is now in the WPF. I don't have a dog in this fight. As a licensed UPC minister I was acquainted with Davies' FIL, Winifred Toole.

We DON'T know all the facts. If these kids were "working" to offset their tuition costs, there's a couple of things to consider. First, child labor laws, phooey. They have changed America's work ethic. I used to mow lawns, baby sit (for money), had friends pick fruit in the orchards around Hood River and the Dalles when they were kids. The principle of "earning tuition" is not lost on me here. The question I have to ask is did their parents understand that some landscaping to help defray tuition costs was part of the "deal"? If so, story is over, imo.

Suing over defamation of character is an interesting topic. The first church in no way resembled our western pastor/ceo paradigm with the pastor with complete (and I mean complete) control over the congregation, especially from what I observed in the Oregon District in years gone by. There may have been "lawsuits" similar to this one in the first church, but I sincerely doubt it. Paul the apostle wanted the church to "mark" those that cause division. I see no reason for Jim Goings to continue attending the McMinnville church except to be a burr in someone's saddle-to cause division or strife. There is a pastor right up the road in Newberg if going to a Oneness church is the criteria.
As a lay person in a 21st century pastor driven church, if Goings suffered defamation he most certainly SHOULD sue the pastor, if anything for his good name or a public apology, if in fact the defamation occurred. The scriptural mandate not to take a "brother" to court should not be likened to the clergical/laity relationship. The "clergy" as we now know it did not exist in the first century. If defamation is proven it will actually throw light on a practice that is akin to spiritual abuse.
Having observed this type of behavior first-hand is the primary reason I let my credentials expire in 1987.

[Garbonzo]

I don't think labor laws are that simple.

You can run comtrary to their requirements and not even know it.

I have a contractor friend who employs several people. One of his workers brought his eight year old to the job site in an office building on a Saturday. He told the kid that he would give him a few bucks to pick up some trash. Another office in the building happens to be the local state labor bureau office. One of the labor bearau employees stopped in after hours and saw the kid taking out trash and went crazy on them about working someone under age. It was nuts. My buddy was being nice to the kid and boom winds up breaking a law he was unaware of. It is likely we have all run afoul of the law in ignorance and sometimes we wind up facing the consequences.

We don't know all the ins and outs and a rush to judgement from those of us on the outside is simply unwise.

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by Garbonzo

I don't think labor laws are that simple.

You can run comtrary to their requirements and not even know it.

I have a contractor friend who employs several people. One of his workers brought his eight year old to the job site in an office building on a Saturday. He told the kid that he would give him a few bucks to pick up some trash. Another office in the building happens to be the local state labor bureau office. One of the labor bearau employees stopped in after hours and saw the kid taking out trash and went crazy on them about working someone under age. It was nuts. My buddy was being nice to the kid and boom winds up breaking a law he was unaware of. It is likely we have all run afoul of the law in ignorance and sometimes we wind up facing the consequences.

We don't know all the ins and outs and a rush to judgement from those of us on the outside is simply unwise.

I know all the ins and outs. No rush here. As for ignorance, well the each hold a licence and Matty has 2 1 as a gen. contractor and he was license and bonded for his lawn business. They have to take a test that deals with this type of situation. This is a little different than having a kid take out trash on a weekend. I have to whole BOLI file. They can lie and cheat but God knows all.
Thanks for commenting.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Garbonzo

I don't think labor laws are that simple.

You can run comtrary to their requirements and not even know it.

I have a contractor friend who employs several people. One of his workers brought his eight year old to the job site in an office building on a Saturday. He told the kid that he would give him a few bucks to pick up some trash. Another office in the building happens to be the local state labor bureau office. One of the labor bearau employees stopped in after hours and saw the kid taking out trash and went crazy on them about working someone under age. It was nuts. My buddy was being nice to the kid and boom winds up breaking a law he was unaware of. It is likely we have all run afoul of the law in ignorance and sometimes we wind up facing the consequences.

We don't know all the ins and outs and a rush to judgement from those of us on the outside is simply unwise.

Gee...I wonder if the same applies at home for doing chores

[Garbonzo]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Gee...I wonder if the same applies at home for doing chores

Don't let the kids know or they may report us.

[Steve Epley]

Slander laws also apply to the Internet!

[Pilgram199]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Gee...I wonder if the same applies at home for doing chores

A quick study will show you that kids can work for parents and in a family business or volunteer for working for a non-profit for little or no pay. Having as many as 7 or 8 kids from your own church working in some cases full time in a for profit business for no pay......that's just really wrong and very sad. How many of these kids do you think will end up living for God after being manipulated like this? It's a sad day people. The love of money is the root of all evil. I wonder if he preaches that.....

[Holy Ghost HH]

Sabby... First those kids where not offsetting anything as proven by BOLI. He was using them almost as slave labor. Also it wasn't "some landscaping". He received compensation from his lawn business and didn't pay any wages. We are in 2015 and we have laws we MUST obeyed. Unless you find it right to work children 60 hours a week in the summer and 30 a week in the school year and pay them nothing? Tuition was only 160 a child a month. You do the math. 9.10 an hour is about 30 or so hours a MONTH not 40 to 60 hours a week. And why did they work in the summer if school was out and no tuition was being paid hmmmm? That is dirty crooked business. I'm sure that Jesus came to them and said all of that was ok.
Bill Davies not only Defamed Mr. Goings he stated private info. Have you not read any of the postings?
As for a OP in newberg there is not one. How long have you been out of the loop? I would be going if there was.
Bill Davies a hardliner is an understatement to say the least. Anyone that studies the bible and sees a different take on a standards as you put it is "marked". So as a memeber of that church you can have no free will. Well you can but you will get disfellowship for it. Long time friends turn there back on you for sleeve length disagreement, or tithe disagreement. All are the behest of ol' Billy and Matty Davies and the pastor's wife Karen who thinks she has some type of authority.
When the church persecuted Paul he appealed to who? That's right The Law as he knew it in his day.
I for one know all the facts and the Davies are as dirty behind the scene as Jim Jones. Drink up its not that bad. It's not the people it's the headship that believes the are the victor of Christ.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

...
Bill Davies not only Defamed Mr. Goings he stated private info.

You belabored the type of work the kids had to do. I've been to third world countries and guarantee those kid were not doing "slave labor". It would not surprise me if they were told to put away their cell phones, prompting them to complain. Refer to post #178 to this thread The child labor thing is done. Settled.
You said you know what went on. What then did Bill say over the pulpit that was defamatory. You must have been there. What did he say? If it's public record then it's out there. If you don't know what was said then it is hearsay and you're bringing a dog to this fight because of secondary grievances that you need to personally get over.
I'll tell you this: if I had someone in my church that was suing me I would suggest to you (and them) that they would be happier worshipping elsewhere.. If Goings stayed it was to stir up trouble or to P.O. the pastor.
Dave & Martha Bragg were in Newberg a few years ago. If you are interested in a nearby church there's a very healthy one in Tigard - non-UPC pastored by one of Gordon Mallory's sons. I'll leave you with this: if you leave angry you will land in someone else's church the same way. Sometimes it's not easy to not have malice in your heart for wrongs (or perceived wrongs) but you have to let the peace of God guard your heart.