Since the heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Subdued

I can't imagine having a favorite child. That's heartbreaking.

I think it happens in families all the time.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

I think it happens in families all the time.

Oh, I know it does -- I just can't imagine doing it myself. The thought really breaks my heart!

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

I think it happens in families all the time.

I agree... it does happen. I do understand it better now that I am a mother of kids almost grown. Really I don't think it is favortism as just personalities meshing well.

I love all my kids the same... love them dearly and would die for any of them tomorrow.. they are all my heart beat... but I do have to admit that they have their special points that tug at my heart at different times... personality wise, I have a difficult time with my middle child but know that she is very dependable.. I can always count on her.

The baby knows just how to work me of course and I give into things that someone might think she was a "favorite". Then there is the oldest who is a barrel of fun to be with at any time. She seems to be the one that is always with me and my other daughters with my sisters. No one is a favorite but I can now see how someone might "think" there are favorites.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Subdued

Oh, I know it does -- I just can't imagine doing it myself. The thought really breaks my heart!

I have never done that with my children. If I bought one something the other got something also. I never bought more gifts or of more value at Christmas than the other. They know that I've been fair.

When I spend money on my daughter, I spend the same on my SIL.

I am fair with all the children at church. There are no favorites and I let them know that they are all important. When my children were involved I never treated them more special. I didn't use them more. We had great success because of that and I see how important, in the church, that is and can be!

I guess it affected me in a great way. I didn't realize that until I typed it here. I respect her because she is older and I don't bring up things to stress her out. It isn't going to change her anyway. Her mother was the same way.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

I agree... it does happen. I do understand it better now that I am a mother of kids almost grown. Really I don't think it is favortism as just personalities meshing well.

I love all my kids the same... love them dearly and would die for any of them tomorrow.. they are all my heart beat... but I do have to admit that they have their special points that tug at my heart at different times... personality wise, I have a difficult time with my middle child but know that she is very dependable.. I can always count on her.

The baby knows just how to work me of course and I give into things that someone might think she was a "favorite". Then there is the oldest who is a barrel of fun to be with at any time. She seems to be the one that is always with me and my other daughters with my sisters. No one is a favorite but I can now see how someone might "think" there are favorites.

Foreverblessed,
You are probably right about the personality mesh. My son and I have always had an easier time of it then me and my daughter. We were banging heads this afternoon! After she calmed down, because she knows I'll hang up and I won't call back, she settled down.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Perhaps in many cases, but I honestly just don't care and never have. He puts on a good show for his mother, but I don't buy the lies anymore.

He recently contacted my brother, who was in his area last month, and asked him to stay an extra day (my father is a OTR truck driver) so he could see him and said he wanted to talk to him. My brother was happy and told me that it must be important because dad NEVER calls him. I told him not to hold his breath, but he insisted that it was important for him to call.

The following day, he waited and waited. He called our mom to tell her that he had yet to call and meet, so my mom called him and chewed him out! She asked why he hadn't called his son who was waiting all day, missing out on work and everything. Dad said that he didn't have time and was busy. She said, "When are you going to call and tell him that yourself?"

Well, that phone call never came, and the meeting never happened. Turns out that my grandmother called him to tell him that my brother was coming to town and he should see him when he came home. My father knew that my brother would tell my grandma that he was staying an extra day, so to appease her, he called to show he was attempting a relationship. He's done that from time to time, even with me.

The last time I saw him (besides when my grandfather passed away last year), he told me that he passes by my house all the time and that he'd call so we could meet for lunch often. I was shocked at his offer, and I waited for the call. It never came. I called and left him message after message. His excuse (when I asked him at the funeral why he hadn't called) was that he didn't have that phone anymore. That was also a lie.

He's lied to me my entire life, and I cannot allow myself to get caught up in more hurt. Forgive him? For what, being a jerk? That's his problem, not mine. But I'm done with him.

I would say that after this post that the only one you are fooling if you say you don't care anymore is yourself. You have likely buried those feelings as to no longer hurt, but they are there still, and eventually you will have to deal with them.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Rico,

I disagree. God extended the provision of forgiveness before we asked. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He did not wait until we asked. It did not change our lives until we did, though.

Brother, if your sins were already forgiven there would have been no reason whatsoever for you to repent when you. Calvary is the means by which forgiveness was made available to man, but that does not mean you were already forgiven before you repented.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Barb

Because, as HO said, it is a heart issue...I am withholding forgiveness because I choose to make YOU make the first move.

IMO, it is better for me to let it go, and whether you ask me to or not is not important.

Turning in now...will look back at this thread as time permits this weekend...

The question is whether or not we are required to forgive before someone asks, not whether it is better to forgive before someone asks.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

Reading the last several post, the issue of fathers.

I was at a womens conference where I heard a woman stand and testify how she was left in a hospital, because her Mother died during labor, no one thought she would live so her dad did not take her home until she was 8 months old.

Her life story was heart wrenching, her father neglecter her, she was motherless and was sent to a convent where she was abused for many years.


During her speech, although she came to know God she always struggled with the thought of "does God really love me?"

I can't help recall this, because of what we are talking about on this thread. I just really feel other people struggle with that question because of the way they were threated by someone (namely fathers here).

We must forgive, but we also need healing as well.

This is not to say anything against women, but I believe how we relate to our Earthly father affects our relationship with God more than how we relate to our mother.

[Rico]

I am posting some scripture here for you to consider:


Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Notice how God specified "without a cause".

Mt 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

Mt 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.


Notice the instructions are to the offender not the offendee.

Mt 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mt 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mt 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.


In all these instructions there is not one mention of forgiving without being asked. Keep in mind that the question, as posed, was if we are required to forgive if someone doesn't ask. Also keep in mind that I believe it is better to forgive regardless of whether we are asked or not. In our humanity we are weak, and not forgiving someone could become a source of bitterness.