Your tithes were already paid. - Page 17

Rudy · #**161** 10-20-2015, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Just a question. Tithing is being questioned here. No problem. Why, though? Is it that people do not give as much as 10% and ti bothers them they are told they should? Or people are giving more and want others to know they can be blessed more than by giving just 10%?

Usually people complain about money when TOO MUCH is being asked. So are you saying 10% is too much to ask for? Trying to see what the point is. Or is it just that DEMANDING people pay a certain amount is wrong, even if it is .001%?

Mike, I'm sure it is about demanding, accusing people of robbing God, you're going to hell, scaring the bee--gee--bees out of folks, killing them with legalism, shunning, etc.

Rudy · #**162** 10-20-2015, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ Kelly

Yes, there are very decent tithe-teachers out there and, yes, we do not need to resort to name-calling. My problem is that they refuse to enter these dialogs and use God's Word to support post-Calvary tithing. Where is their HOLY boldness? If you cannot support, stop teaching it.

Shock, Jesus, Peter and Paul never tithed! Why not? HOLY tithes were always only food from inside God's HOLY land which God miraculously increased/ Now take that fact and provide texts to disprove it. Otherwise stop teaching tithing.

Russ Kelly--lol.

good samaritan · #**163** 10-20-2015, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ Kelly

Yes, there are very decent tithe-teachers out there and, yes, we do not need to resort to name-calling. My problem is that they refuse to enter these dialogs and use God's Word to support post-Calvary tithing. Where is their HOLY boldness? If you cannot support, stop teaching it.

Shock, Jesus, Peter and Paul never tithed! Why not? HOLY tithes were always only food from inside God's HOLY land which God miraculously increased/ Now take that fact and provide texts to disprove it. Otherwise stop teaching tithing.

If this is the same Bro. Kelly who has many you tube videos on tithing, I commend your studies and I also agree. I enjoy dialogue on the biblical accuracy of things, but the problem with many of these threads is they become mean, demeaning and sarcastic (biblical accuracy becomes a weapon).

I don't believe in mandatory tithing. I think that tithing is a good system adapted from the Old Testament. The church has grown and is more orthodox than the early church was in Jerusalem. People are responsible to the work of God in giving financial support. That is definite.

We are to be Spirit led givers. Did Jesus not command us to go beyond the laws commands? (see Mathew 5) The Spirit doesn't drive us to live minimally, but abundantly. A person should commit financially to God and tithing is a good way to do it. It should not be a legalism under the law, but a commitment to furthering the kingdom of God. The amount is not the issue it is the heart.

Originalist · #**164** 10-20-2015, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Just a question. Tithing is being questioned here. No problem. Why, though? Is it that people do not give as much as 10% and ti bothers them they are told they should? Or people are giving more and want others to know they can be blessed more than by giving just 10%?

Usually people complain about money when TOO MUCH is being asked. So are you saying 10% is too much to ask for? Trying to see what the point is. Or is it just that DEMANDING people pay a certain amount is wrong, even if it is .001%?

As a minister I want to be 100% sure I am not misleading god's flocking any way. That is what is behind my zeal for this subject.

Nitehawk013 · #**165** 10-20-2015, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Just a question. Tithing is being questioned here. No problem. Why, though? Is it that people do not give as much as 10% and ti bothers them they are told they should? Or people are giving more and want others to know they can be blessed more than by giving just 10%?

Usually people complain about money when TOO MUCH is being asked. So are you saying 10% is too much to ask for? Trying to see what the point is. Or is it just that DEMANDING people pay a certain amount is wrong, even if it is .001%?

I have been straight forward in my reasoning for questioning and condemning the doctrine of tithing. I dislike the fact that 1) it doesn't belong in the NT church. No record of it for 600+ years after Calvary. Paul never even uses the word. Jesus Himself never tells a single soul that they must do it under the new coming covenant. Peter, James, John...all silent. The Patristic period? Only even mentioned as an ideal, never a law or something that people must do or be condemned. 2) I have seen too many people hurt by the doctrine. Elderly saints who are told they must choose paying tithe over buying groceries or prescriptions. YES I have indeed heard it with my own ears. Pay the church instead of medicines you need to live.

No one should think they have no responsibility to fund the church. Everyone who is a faithful member of a church should recognize their responsibility to give to support the church. Everyone should give. The problem is when you twist and force an OT temple tax upon the NT church. That is just wrong.

Sean · #**166** 10-20-2015, 07:37 PM

The modern tithing doctrine for Apostolics, was invented in early organizational leadership forums in modern times.

The independent churches and their members were astonished and upset to see the organizations send out preachers to teach this idea in the early to mid 20th century.(they were commonly called the 10%ers)

Folks wanted to be part of these organizations, therefore accepted the doctrine of tithing as part of joining them.

mfblume · #**167** 10-20-2015, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I have been straight forward in my reasoning for questioning and condemning the doctrine of tithing. I dislike the fact that 1) it doesn't belong in the NT church. No record of it for 600+ years after Calvary. Paul never even uses the word. Jesus Himself never tells a single soul that they must do it under the new coming covenant. Peter, James, John...all silent. The Patristic period? Only even mentioned as an ideal, never a law or something that people must do or be condemned. 2) I have seen too many people hurt by the doctrine. Elderly saints who are told they must choose paying tithe over buying groceries or prescriptions. YES I have indeed heard it with my own ears. Pay the church instead of medicines you need to live.

No one should think they have no responsibility to fund the church. Everyone who is a faithful member of a church should recognize their responsibility to give to support the church. Everyone should give. The problem is when you twist and force an OT temple tax upon the NT church. That is just wrong.

But you do realize not very who gives tithes does so due to a church that presents it the way you described here, right?.

mfblume · #**168** 10-20-2015, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy

Mike, I'm sure it is about demanding, accusing people of robbing God, you're going to hell, scaring the bee--gee--bees out of folks, killing them with legalism, shunning, etc.

Ok, I agree those things are wrong. But please make that clear, for when everyone simply says TITHING, readers don't know you're implying all that abuse.

Evang.Benincasa · #**169** 10-20-2015, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Ok, I agree those things are wrong. But please make that clear, for when everyone simply says TITHING, readers don't know you're implying all that abuse.

You see, this is like saying that we became Preterists due to some abuse caused by incorrect eschatology? All this wound licking within a doctrine just seems to be focused on attracting more victims? Victims who have had the same bad experiences due to the misuses of the "doctrine" which committed the crime?

Rudy · #**170** 10-21-2015, 09:21 AM

If a poll was taken among oneness pastors I'm sure 75% would put you in hell for not tithing your income. Now they are going for a 5% offering.

Robbing God has to do with robbing him of glory and interfering with his work. With the thousands who have left over this issue, God is being robbed again by those in leadership as in Malachi.

One pastor would not baptize unless he committed to tithe. Another told backsliders they had to pay up for the time they were out!!

Yes God is being robbed.

God is being robbed in a number of ways.