House Rep Scalise Shot

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by Jito463

It's because Aquila doesn't believe in a God who provides. He doesn't believe that when we are hurt or in pain or in financial distress, that God can deliver us from it. All God requires is faith as a grain of mustard seed. Not the size of a mustard seed, but faith that - like the mustard seed - will grow to enormous proportions.

Aquila's faith in a God who provides is stagnant (maybe non-existent?), so he has to turn to the god of government to provide, instead. To him, they're the only source of help in our time of need.

He doesn't believe in the old woman, who gave the last of her oil and grain to the preacher instead of her son, and in return was provided with enough oil to pay off her debt and live securely for rest of her life. That's just a fable, not something that could happen today.

Oh, no!

We need big daddy goobermint to come in and save the day, like Mighty Mouse to the rescue.

I think Aquila's faith in the Gov is dangerous and misguided, but it appears to come from "church hurt". Again, the foolish imbalanced pendulum of many Christians. It swings wild for MANY, from the church can do no right to the church can do no wrong. I think Aquila finds himself on the "church can do no right" side currently and it appears he has a legit gripe even if that upsets many here.

Take a reality pill. Anyone in church for any number of years sees favoritism, mismanagement of funds, wastefulness, etc. That is reality. Many of our church leaders idolize the OT kings and they try to reign in their churches like them, including the nepotism that produces "royal bloodline" Pastorates and leadership generations. Within that mess you get men who control the money and do with it what they will, even if it makes no sense. We have all seen it. Some just play holier than thou and refuse to talk of it for fear of "touch not mine anointed". Aquila has a fair gripe if he was part of a church wasting money and not taking care of the saints.

Of course, he goes WAYYYYYY too far with his gripe and appears to have allowed it to consume him and his pendulum has swung from the church to the Gov which is an even bigger waste, an even bigger offender, an even bigger manipulator and shows even more bad judgment and favoritism.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I think Aquila's faith in the Gov is dangerous and misguided, but it appears to come from "church hurt". Again, the foolish imbalanced pendulum of many Christians. It swings wild for MANY, from the church can do no right to the church can do no wrong. I think Aquila finds himself on the "church can do no right" side currently and it appears he has a legit gripe even if that upsets many here.

Take a reality pill. Anyone in church for any number of years sees favoritism, mismanagement of funds, wastefulness, etc. That is reality. Many of our church leaders idolize the OT kings and they try to reign in their churches like them, including the nepotism that produces "royal bloodline" Pastorates and leadership generations. Within that mess you get men who control the money and do with it what they will, even if it makes no sense. We have all seen it. Some just play holier than thou and refuse to talk of it for fear of "touch not mine anointed". Aquila has a fair gripe if he was part of a church wasting money and not taking care of the saints.

Of course, he goes WAYYYYYY too far with his gripe and appears to have allowed it to consume him and his pendulum has swung from the church to the Gov which is an even bigger waste, an even bigger offender, an even bigger manipulator and shows even more bad judgment and favoritism.

Excellent post on many levels.

Your Kung Fu is very good.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

It's because Aquila doesn't believe in a God who provides. He doesn't believe that when we are hurt or in pain or in financial distress, that God can deliver us from it. All God requires is faith as a grain of mustard seed. Not the size of a mustard seed, but faith that - like the mustard seed - will grow to enormous proportions.

Aquila's faith in a God who provides is stagnant (maybe non-existent?), so he has to turn to the god of government to provide, instead. To him, they're the only source of help in our time of need.

He doesn't believe in the old woman, who gave the last of her oil and grain to the preacher instead of her son, and in return was provided with enough oil to pay off her debt and live securely for rest of her life. That's just a fable, not something that could happen today.

Oh, no!

We need big daddy goobermint to come in and save the day, like Mighty Mouse to the rescue.

Wow. Those are some rather serious judgments against my faith...on account that I disagree with your politics. That says more about you than it does me. Allow ME to clarify what I believe.

I never said that God doesn't provide. In fact, I believe that God provides through family, individuals, churches, charities, and righteous institutions of government.

I have never said that government is our only source of help in our time of need. Have said that the same care and concern for the needy groups of the society demanded of the individual is demanded of the ruler and that said ruler's government, indeed, even the pagan ruler. (Psalm 72:4; Ezekiel 34:4; Jeremiah 22:15-16; Daniel 4:27; Proverbs 31:8-9) There is to be no distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice.

In addition, I also believe in miraculous provision. However, I do not believe we are entitled to miraculous provision as some have preached as part of the Prosperity Gospel. I also believe that God's miraculous provision comes in the most dire of circumstances. Therefore, it is often the result of our failure to function correctly as it relates to families, churches, charities, and a society. When a widow woman's only hope is that God miraculously multiply her oil and her grain lest she die... somewhere we have failed. We must search ourselves and determine if this failure was of no fault of our own or if it was due to our indifference as families, churches, charities, and a society.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

It's because Aquila doesn't believe in a God who provides. He doesn't believe that when we are hurt or in pain or in financial distress, that God can deliver us from it. All God requires is faith as a grain of mustard seed. Not the size of a mustard seed, but faith that - like the mustard seed - will grow to enormous proportions.

Aquila's faith in a God who provides is stagnant (maybe non-existent?), so he has to turn to the god of government to provide, instead. To him, they're the only source of help in our time of need.

He doesn't believe in the old woman, who gave the last of her oil and grain to the preacher instead of her son, and in return was provided with enough oil to pay off her debt and live securely for rest of her life. That's just a fable, not something that could happen today.

Oh, no!

We need big daddy goobermint to come in and save the day, like Mighty Mouse to the rescue.

CONTINUED:

I would also like to point out that while it is rather popular to curse, mock, and denigrate the government in typical anarchist fashion, government is an institution ordained of God. It is written,

Romans 13:1-7 (ESV)
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Government is ordained of God to serve mankind. It serves in the provision of justice. Justice is not merely penalties for wrong done, but is the good that is done for a people in the effort to ensure that none are left suffering under the bonds of oppression. For sound definition of "biblical justice" please read the following:

Holman Bible Dictionary

Justice

The order God seeks to reestablish in His creation where all people receive the benefits of life with Him. As love is for the New Testament, so justice is the central ethical idea of the Old Testament. The frequency of justice is sometimes missed by the reader due to a failure to realize that the wide range of the Hebrew word mishpat , particularly in passages that deal with the material and social necessities of life.

Nature of justice Justice has two major aspects. First, it is the standard by which penalties are assigned for breaking the obligations of the society. Second, justice is the standard by which the advantages of social life are handed out, including material goods, rights of participation, opportunities, and liberties. It is the standard for both punishment and benefits and thus can be spoken of as a plumb line. “I shall use justice as a plumb-line, and righteousness as a plummet” (Isaiah 28:17 , REB).

Often people think of justice in the Bible only in the first sense as God's wrath on evil. This aspect of justice indeed is present, such as the judgment mentioned in John 3:19 . Often more vivid words like “wrath” are used to describe punitive justice (Romans 1:18 ).

Justice in the Bible very frequently also deals with benefits. Cultures differ widely in determining the basis by which the benefits are to be justly distributed. For some it is by birth and nobility. For others the basis is might or ability or merit. Or it might simply be whatever is the law or whatever has been established by contracts. The Bible takes another possibility. Benefits are distributed according to need. Justice then is very close to love and grace. God “executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing” (Deuteronomy 10:18 , NRSV; compare Hosea 10:12 ; Isaiah 30:18 ).

Various needy groups are the recipients of justice. These groups include widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick (Job 29:12-17 ; Psalm 146:7-9 ; Malachi 3:5 ). Each of these groups has specific needs which keep its members from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Even life itself might be threatened. Justice involves meeting those needs. The forces which deprive people of what is basic for community life are condemned as oppression (Micah 2:2 ; Ecclesiastes 4:1 ). To oppress is to use power for one's own advantage in depriving others of their basic rights in the community (see Mark 12:40 ). To do justice is to correct that abuse and to meet those needs (Isaiah 1:17 ). Injustice is depriving others of their basic needs or failing to correct matters when those rights are not met (Jeremiah 5:28 ; Job 29:12-17 ). Injustice is either a sin of commission or of omission.

The content of justice, the benefits which are to be distributed as basic rights in the community, can be identified by observing what is at stake in the passages in which “justice,” “righteousness,” and “judgment” occur. The needs which are met include land (Ezekiel 45:6-9 ; compare Micah 2:2 ; Micah 4:4 ) and the means to produce from the land, such as draft animals and millstones (Deuteronomy 22:1-4 ; Deuteronomy 24:6 ). These productive concerns are basic to securing other essential needs and thus avoiding dependency; thus the millstone is called the “life” of the person (Deuteronomy 24:6 ). Other needs are those essential for mere physical existence and well being: food (Deuteronomy 10:18 ; Psalm 146:7 ), clothing (Deuteronomy 24:13 ), and shelter (Psalm 68:6 ; Job 8:6 ). Job 22:5-9 ,Job 22:5-9,22:23 ; Job 24:1-12 decries the injustice of depriving people of each one of these needs, which are material and economic. The equal protection of each person in civil and judicial procedures is represented in the demand for due process ( Deuteronomy 16:18-20 ). Freedom from bondage is comparable to not being “in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and lack of everything” (Deuteronomy 28:48 NRSV).

Justice presupposes God's intention for people to be in community. When people had become poor and weak with respect to the rest of the community, they were to be strengthened so that they could continue to be effective members of the community—living with them and beside them (Leviticus 25:35-36 ). Thus biblical justice restores people to community. By justice those who lacked the power and resources to participate in significant aspects of the community were to be strengthened so that they could. This concern in Leviticus 25:1 is illustrated by the provision of the year of Jubilee, in which at the end of the fifty year period land is restored to those who had lost it through sale or foreclosure of debts ( Leviticus 25:28 ). Thus they regained economic power and were brought back into the economic community. Similarly, interest on loans was prohibited (Leviticus 25:36 ) as a process which pulled people down, endangering their position in the community.

These legal provisions express a further characteristic of justice. Justice delivers; it does not merely relieve the immediate needs of those in dire straits (Psalm 76:9 ; Isaiah 45:8 ; Isaiah 58:11 ; Isaiah 62:1-2 ). Helping the needy means setting them back on their feet, giving a home, leading to prosperity, restoration, ending the oppression (Psalm 68:5-10 ; Psalm 10:15-16 ; compare 107; Psalm 113:7-9 ). Such thorough justice can be socially disruptive. In the Jubilee year as some receive back lands, others lose recently-acquired additional land. The advantage to some is a disadvantage to others. In some cases the two aspects of justice come together. In the act of restoration, those who were victims of justice receive benefits while their exploiters are punished (1 Samuel 2:7-10 ; compare Luke 1:51-53 ; Luke 6:20-26 ).

The source of justice As the sovereign Creator of the universe, God is just (Psalm 99:1-4 ; Genesis 18:25 ; Deuteronomy 32:4 ; Jeremiah 9:24 ), particularly as the defender of all the oppressed of the earth (Psalm 76:9 ; Psalm 103:6 ; Jeremiah 49:11 ). Justice thus is universal (Psalm 9:7-9 ) and applies to each covenant or dispensation. Jesus affirmed for His day the centrality of the Old Testament demand for justice (Matthew 23:23 ). Justice is the work of the New Testament people of God (James 1:27 ).

God's justice is not a distant external standard. It is the source of all human justice (Proverbs 29:26 ; 2Chronicles 19:6,2 Chronicles 19:9 ). Justice is grace received and grace shared (2 Corinthians 9:8-10 ).

The most prominent human agent of justice is the ruler. The king receives God's justice and is a channel for it (Psalm 72:1 ; compare Romans 13:1-2 ,Romans 13:1-2,13:4 ). There is not a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice. The same caring for the needy groups of the society is demanded of the ruler (Psalm 72:4 ; Ezekiel 34:4 ; Jeremiah 22:15-16 ). Such justice was also required of pagan rulers (Daniel 4:27 ; Proverbs 31:8-9 ).

Justice is also a central demand on all people who bear the name of God. Its claim is so basic that without it other central demands and provisions of God are not acceptable to God. Justice is required to be present with the sacrificial system (Amos 5:21-24 ; Micah 6:6-8 ; Isaiah 1:11-17 ; Matthew 5:23-24 ), fasting (Isaiah 58:1-10 ), tithing (Matthew 23:23 ), obedience to the other commandments (Matthew 19:16-21 ), or the presence of the Temple of God (Jeremiah 7:1-7 ).

Justice in salvation Apart from describing God's condemnation of sin, Paul used the language and meaning of justice to speak of personal salvation. “The righteousness of God” represents God in grace bringing into the community of God through faith in Christ those who had been outside of the people of God (particularly in Romans but compare also Ephesians 2:12-13 ). See Law; Government ; Poverty ; Righteousness ; Welfare.

Stephen Charles Mott
http://www.studylight.org/dictionari...hilite=JUSTICE

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

CONTINUED:

I would also like to point out that while it is rather popular to curse, mock, and denigrate the government in typical anarchist fashion, government is an institution ordained of God. It is written,

Then you should never ever say anything against the ruler of thy people.

End of Conversation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Then you should never ever say anything against the ruler of thy people.

End of Conversation.

I'd never say anything against Jesus.

[n david]

How many times are you going to post the Holman Bible Dictionary for "Justice?" You've literally posted it at least a dozen times in a few threads.

I get it. To you, Jesus is the ultimate SJW. It's sad, because that lessens who He really is and what He really came to do.

Jesus is our Savior, not our SJW.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

How many times are you going to post the Holman Bible Dictionary for "Justice?" You've literally posted it at least a dozen times in a few threads.

I get it. To you, Jesus is the ultimate SJW. It's sad, because that lessens who He really is and what He really came to do.

Jesus is our Savior, not our SJW.

I've only repeated it because nobody has really discussed it. It doesn't lessen who He really is and what He really came to do. In fact, it awakens us to the work before us. Faith without works is dead.

In my opinion, prancing about talking about who Jesus is and what He came to do for you spiritually on the cross... but then abandoning the cause of social justice for the poor, the sick, the elderly, the handicapped, and the stranger does far more to take away from who Jesus is and what He came to do.

While the church (every Christian) should provide the Gospel, spiritual teaching, spiritual fellowship, and immediate charity and compassion... she should ALSO be calling the entire society to do the same. The church shouldn't have a private message of charity and compassion... but a cold and indifferent social message that tells society that unless you're the church, you really have no obligation towards the most vulnerable and needy in our society.

As it relates to social justice...

We should be calling on church bodies, individuals, charities, and the institutions of our government to remember the poor and needy classes.

This is our Father's world - we should be leading the way in conservation and environmental issues.

We should be calling on all people, bodies, and institutions to discover the healing power of forgiveness and reconciliation between parties divided by race, gender, age, color, religion, sex, and nationality.

We should be a voice and a champion for the powerless and the oppressed.

We should be teaching all people, bodies, and institutions that all things belong to God, nothing is our own, we are but stewards of our resources and that we should use them wisely and for the common good of mankind.

We should be the first to embrace the outcasts and the "sinners" of this world, being an example and model of grace and love for the least of these to all individuals, bodies, and institutions.

Many, if not most, Christians and churches do well with these things within the sphere of the church. But we're not calling out to all of society to do the same. It's almost like we tell one another that we have to care for the sick and the poor... but tell the world outside our doors that they need not be so concerned, and in fact that it is best if government and our civic leaders ignores them completely.

I believe our message should be a single consistent message for all. We should not have a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'd never say anything against Jesus.

Acts 23:5, Paul thought the high priest was Jesus?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've only repeated it because nobody has really discussed it. It doesn't lessen who He really is and what He really came to do. In fact, it awakens us to the work before us. Faith without works is dead.

In my opinion, prancing about talking about who Jesus is and what He came to do for you spiritually on the cross... but then abandoning the cause of social justice for the poor, the sick, the elderly, the handicapped, and the stranger does far more to take away from who Jesus is and what He came to do.

While the church (every Christian) should provide the Gospel, spiritual teaching, spiritual fellowship, and immediate charity and compassion... she should ALSO be calling the entire society to do the same. The church shouldn't have a private message of charity and compassion... but a cold and indifferent social message that tells society that unless you're the church, you really have no obligation towards the most vulnerable and needy in our society.

As it relates to social justice...

We should be calling on church bodies, individuals, charities, and the institutions of our government to remember the poor and needy classes.

This is our Father's world - we should be leading the way in conservation and environmental issues.

We should be calling on all people, bodies, and institutions to discover the healing power of forgiveness and reconciliation between parties divided by race, gender, age, color, religion, sex, and nationality.

We should be a voice and a champion for the powerless and the oppressed.

We should be teaching all people, bodies, and institutions that all things belong to God, nothing is our own, we are but stewards of our resources and that we should use them wisely and for the common good of mankind.

We should be the first to embrace the outcasts and the "sinners" of this world, being an example and model of grace and love for the least of these to all individuals, bodies, and institutions.

Many, if not most, Christians and churches do well with these things within the sphere of the church. But we're not calling out to all of society to do the same. It's almost like we tell one another that we have to care for the sick and the poor... but tell the world outside our doors that they need not be so concerned, and in fact that it is best if government and our civic leaders ignores them completely.

I believe our message should be a single consistent message for all. We should not have a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice.

Wow, that is what you got from reading a Bible dictionary?