Bishop SC Johnson

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

Everyone here seems to be well educated in the UPCI. I was wondering has anyone heard of Bishop SC Johnson and his apostolic teachings. He is considered one the main pioneers among apostolics in the African American community. If you know about him and his teachings, please share what you know. I am sure Bro. Sam knows about this gentleman. We have discussed him before.

Yes, he is well versed in apostolic history.

Yes, I know of Bishop S. C. Johnson of 22nd Bainbridge St. in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. My family was members in his church. Bishop Johnson was a very kind man, although to hear him preach you wouldn't have thought it. He was gentle with his small congregations by whom is was greatly revered. It was by radio broadcast they the congregations across the country was held together. People went to church and listened to "the broadcast" on Sundays. The churches were honored with his presence occasionally. I was just a teenager when he died in 1961 in Kingston, Jamaica. His teaching was One Lord, One Faith, One baptism; Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, tarrying for the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues and continuing in the apostles' doctrine. Bishop S.M. Shelton took his place as bishop after his death, during which time there was great turmoil in the church with part of the members braking off from that congregation and forming other churches. There's one of his churches somewhere in New York that one of his original members in my state of kentucky attends whenever she can. She's 76 years old. The rest of the time she listens to tapes of Bishop Johnson's sermons at home. She holds church service alone, in her home and has hundreds of Bishop Johnson's sermons. She is a faithful member to his bishopric even to this day. Bishop Johnson was truly a man of God.

[warrior]

Hi Martha,

Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.

Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.

Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years. There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson. So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this. Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong!

What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?

I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by warrior

Hi Martha,

Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.

Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.

Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years. There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson. So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this. Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong!

What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?

I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.

Bishop Johnson was human.
I would not argue about whether he was an apostle or not but whether he was or not does not mean that he was 100 percent accurate in everything that he preached or taught. We all know in part and prophesy in part. We see through a glass (Bible) dimly. Some day we'll be raptured and reach perfection. Until then there will be disagreements among us on just about any doctrine or teaching or interpretation.

[warrior]

Originally Posted by Sam

Bishop Johnson was human.
I would not argue about whether he was an apostle or not but whether he was or not does not mean that he was 100 percent accurate in everything that he preached or taught. We all know in part and prophesy in part. We see through a glass (Bible) dimly. Some day we'll be raptured and reach perfection. Until then there will be disagreements among us on just about any doctrine or teaching or interpretation.

Sam, I totally see that he isn't perfect. However, there are people sitting at home and spreading the lies that he was and not only was he an apostle but the LAST APOSTLE to ever walk this earth. They won't hear anyone else because they have been taught that everyone else is FALSE. I get that he was subject to error, but his followers don't.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by warrior

Sam, I totally see that he isn't perfect. However, there are people sitting at home and spreading the lies that he was and not only was he an apostle but the LAST APOSTLE to ever walk this earth. They won't hear anyone else because they have been taught that everyone else is FALSE. I get that he was subject to error, but his followers don't.

It's a shame that these people don't have enough discernment enough to know that there is no scripture to support the idea that Johnson was the "last apostle"... nor his "no Son of God in heaven" teaching... nor the "we dont need a pastor -- we'll just listen to tapes" practice. If these people would compare all things by scripture they'd see how they're greatly in error on these things.

At the end of the day, our primary loyalty has to be to the Word of God, not to any man, no matter how good a preacher he supposedly is.

[warrior]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

It's a shame that these people don't have enough discernment enough to know that there is no scripture to support the idea that Johnson was the "last apostle"... nor his "no Son of God in heaven" teaching... nor the "we dont need a pastor -- we'll just listen to tapes" practice. If these people would compare all things by scripture they'd see how they're greatly in error on these things.

At the end of the day, our primary loyalty has to be to the Word of God, not to any man, no matter how good a preacher he supposedly is.

Many of them choose to listen to the tapes before ever referring to the Bible. If the Bible reference was ever made they would know they were out of order.

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

Sam, I totally see that he isn't perfect. However, there are people sitting at home and spreading the lies that he was and not only was he an apostle but the LAST APOSTLE to ever walk this earth. They won't hear anyone else because they have been taught that everyone else is FALSE. I get that he was subject to error, but his followers don't.

Martha: Excuse me. We are literate, intelligent people, some of us professionals who read the bible, news papers, hold jobs, have families, watch the news like anybody else. We are not closed inside a chamber never knowing the outside world. I have heard what the rest of the religious world has to offer and I have not found that it is in accordance with what the scripture says. Either a church preaches/teaches what's written or it doesn't.

Was Bishop Johnson the last apostle? I have asked you if YOU KNOW ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD who's preaching what Bishop Johnson preached. If you know someone, let us all know who they are and where they are. If you don't, No, there has not been another apostle since Bishop Johnson died. If you believe that your church is right and Bishop Johnson is wrong, where is your proof of that based on the scriptures? I hear you challenging his doctrine and claims but I don't hear you substantiating it.

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

Sam, I totally see that he isn't perfect. However, there are people sitting at home and spreading the lies that he was and not only was he an apostle but the LAST APOSTLE to ever walk this earth. They won't hear anyone else because they have been taught that everyone else is FALSE. I get that he was subject to error, but his followers don't.

Martha: Lies? Name ONE LIE that I have spread that can be traced to anything Bishop Johnson preached. If you can't do that then you shouldn't be saying that.


If you get that Bishop Johnson was subject to error, NAME THE ERROR YOU'RE SPEAKING OF THAT YOU GOT AND SUPPORT IT WITH SCRIPTURE.

As for the people sitting at home, we are not ignorant people as your post would suggest. Many of us, including myself, are educated, professional people who are quite capable of reading the scriptures for ourselves and finding the flaws in other church doctrines that cannot be supported by scripture.

[martha]

Originally Posted by Sam

Bishop Johnson was human.
I would not argue about whether he was an apostle or not but whether he was or not does not mean that he was 100 percent accurate in everything that he preached or taught. We all know in part and prophesy in part. We see through a glass (Bible) dimly. Some day we'll be raptured and reach perfection. Until then there will be disagreements among us on just about any doctrine or teaching or interpretation.

Martha: Yes Sam, he was human. But can you find any doctrinal flaws in his preaching that can be substantiated by the scripture? That's the test of his legitimacy, not the fact that he was a mortal man. Bishop Johnson came with a gospel that was foreign to the religious world of his day. He came with the Apostolic doctrine which condemned many things that had heretofore been accepted in the churches and the doctrine of every church that I know of. It seems you know a lot about him independent of anything I might have to say.

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

Hi Martha,

Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.

Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.

Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years. There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson. So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this. Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong!

What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?

I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.

Martha: The dress code came from 1st Timothy 2:9-13. That scripture was used as a model. The actual code was adopted by the women in leadership of the women in the church and agreed upon by Bishop Johnson. But it was Sister Green, supervisor of the women who created the specific dress code. Bishop Johnson had his own idea of how a woman professing holiness was supposed to dress and Sister Green's model was okay with him. If Sister Green had presented a less severe code, he might have okayed that too but once it was established, "all walked by the same rule." I really don't believe that Bishop Johnson believed that a modest dress of any modest length and nylon hose would send anyone to hell. He just frowned on it because it was against the established dress code and therefore was disobedience to the code.

No son of God in heaven now is scriptural, of course. Bishop Johnson NEVER preached ANYTHING that was not scriptural. If you ever heard him preach it you would have understood. Jesus Christ is God Almighty. He is Father in creation when He created all things. He was the Son of God in redemption and now Holy Ghost in the Church. Let me see if I can copy the web site that has this particular sermon preached by Bishop Johnson onto this page and you can listen to it for yourself.

The True Word, Apostolic Ministries of America, Inc.
A. All Bishop S.C. Johnson Audio Tapes will continue to be available from ... Bishop S.C. Johnson's Headquarters of his Apostolic Churches (The Church of ...

Go to the True Word Apostolic Ministries of America, Inc. web page and at the bottom of the page are some of Bishop Johnson's sermons. You will find part I and part II of No Son of God in Heaven Now listed. You can't play all of them because the site won't let you but these two can be played.