Your Predictions for the coming elections???

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by scotty

Brother me and you have already had this conversation on the other thread. My response is the same. I don't want it.

Put it on the ballot, if the majority votes it in then fine, otherwise don't force it on me.

Bro...do you have health insurance? If so, what do you pay in premiums?

You still did not address how you figure the government can be trusted with this when all the other government run programs and departments are inept.

Medicaid, Medicare, the Military, VA hospitals and a number of other government departments work very well. When dealing with these the issue is primarily funding, not being inept.

And last but not least, for as many as you can show that approve of it I can inturn post testimony of the nightmares others have went through.

Brother, my father in law had some trouble breathing and weakness two weeks after a heart surgery. We called the ambulance and he was taken to Kettering Hospital in Kettering Ohio. He sat in the ER waiting room for 10 hours. When he was eventually moved the ICU they gave him some blood thinner and began to examine him. During the process he went into shock and they lost him. The discovered that he bled to death from internal bleeding. They allowed him to sit for 10 hours, they could have saved his life. Does this horror story reflect the ENTIRE American health care system? No. It's not that bad if you have insurance. But my point is that there are horror stories in every health care system. The conservatives that oppose universal health care exploit these tragedies and try to pawn the stories off as though they represent the entire universal health care system of another nation. Sadly, some of us here in the US aren't wise enough to look at it objectively and apply critical thinking to the conclusions these conservatives are trying to make us have. We're mental midgets who believe nearly anything we hear. But I've been to other countries and see universal health care with MY OWN eyes. Dude, they're lying to us.

Ever wonder why low income towns/cities have run down education systems, poor streets, run down city services. Because low income cities, towns, etc. pay less taxes by percentage than higher income towns/cities. The town I live in is comprised mostly of upper middle to upper income. The town that borders us is middle to lower income. The difference in the services, parks, schools, streets, etc is like night and day. This will be no different. If you are upper income,thus putting more into the system, you will get excellent health care. But if you are lower income, your health care will be the equal to that of a bad HMO. Lower income people in these countries you adore have waited in line for months just to be looked at by a doctor. Waiting list for surgeries, while the people suffer till their number is called.

Dude, you don't know what you're talking about. The average wait time in a Canadian ER is like 20 to 30 minutes for non-emergencies. It's much like here in the US. I've been there and seen it myself.

I don't want it brother, period. If people want a government to take care of them then move to another country, otherwise put it on the ballot and let the majority decide.

Dude, you just don't get it. Oh well...America will one day catch up when fear is put behind us. Let me invite you to another thread on this forum so that we can discuss this with some Canadian brothers and sisters...

Canadian and American Healthcare ?
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...623#post379623

[StMark]

Healthcare is a serious issue in America.I certainly share all the concerns that all the conservatives here in regards to moral issues but i wished they would also admit that something has to be done about healthcare in America.I know families that are dishing out $1000 a month for health insurance. It's out of control!

I had a lot of reservations about a Natl. plan but after talking to Ron in Canada I'm a little more open to giving it a try. Canada has probably had time to work out the bugs too.

whenever social security and other Democratic reform was implimented in past generations, it was always met with hostility.People fear the unknown.
But now everyone enjoys workemen's comp, social sec. benefits and even unemployment when needed

[scotty]

To say Medicare and VA and all that works but is just not funded enough!!!!! that is not knowing what your talking about brother. The system you are relying on is corrupt and broken and you just want to add another program. This is America , not Canada or France. Greed don't exist there in the magnitude it exist here. The thing is when we open the door to this, where will it stop?!?! Go ahead and tell us what the tax rate is in these other countries. Lets just work for free and the government can determine what our pay is spent on for us. This is stupid. Move. If you want that type of system then move there. I wonder why you are so afraid of putting it on the ballot? Maybe because you know it wouldn't pass?

Sorry fella's, I just can't buy into a socialist government. Don't get me wrong I know it's going to come anyway. Global warming is coming. There are alot of things coming, the bible says so. This is just one of them. But with this comes the whole of the Democratic agenda. UN, NWO, everything will be universal including an ID system.
Does it not bother any of you that neither of the Dem. candidates have (without changing the subject) answered whether or not they will continue supporting Israel? I don't expect them to. The bible says "all nations will rise up against Israel" not some, all. That includes America. Its the big picture I don't like.

[Hoovie]

...and on a positive note Huck smashed McCain - 3 to 1 in Kansas!

[ChristopherHall]

Go Huckabee! He's the only Republican I like right now. lol

I'll never understand the irrational hatred American citizens have for their own government. We've really drifted from loving our country and being a civil community to being rugged individualists who just really don't care if the neighbors can't afford health care or the food they need. It soothes our minds to argue for "charity". Why? Because "charity" is optional and brings no demands with it. We can give when we like and choose not to when we don't. And we feel like we did "something". Sadly, all too often...that "something" amounts to very little.

The nation of Israel collected three different tithes as a nation. The first was Levitical and provided for the priesthood. The second was a temple tithe and provided for the needs of the temple. The third was collected every three years to be distributed to the poor, the needy, widows, orphans, and strangers (think aliens and migrant workers, that's another debate). These same protected social groups had a right to glean from the crops in the land of Israel. It was their right to sustenance. The God's law for the nation insured that none would be left behind. God promised the nation that if they abide by his law there would be no poor among them. God also called for a year of Jubilee in which all land had to be transfered back to the line of it's original owners. This was to prevent the aggregation of wealth being consolidated into the hands of a very few. The land was to never leave the line of it's original owner, the land and all that was no it belonged to the Lord, and it was to be shared by the nation. The corners and edges of the fields belonged to the poor. The poor tithe belonged to the poor. Aside from these things, they were free to barter as necessary. These were the foundational elements of the economy God himself laid out for his people. While we no longer live in an agricultural society that can institute these distributist principles literally...we do well to apply these principles in our national budget, social vision, and civil discourse. Here is where I believe the conservatives have gone wrong. They have abandoned God's principles of social harmony and and unity. For the Israelite, they were as a people called to national compassion as policy. These policies prevailed in various aspects throughout Israel's history, however God brought condemnation and promised judgment upon the nation that ignored these principles. In the time of Christ we know that these social principles existed. In the Gospels we see Jesus and his disciples gleaning corn from another's crop. Another had planted, tended, and harvested...yet Christ and his disciples who had forsaken earthly wealth legally gleaned food from another's crop at least on this occasion. There wasn't a stigma attached to gleaning, it was simply part of their culture, their world view. Sadly we curse the poor, the widow, the orphan, and the stranger for asking for social assistance. This is a grave sin, revealing our self centeredness in the United States.

Those are my deepest convictions on the matter. Charity can never provide what social compassion can. I will admit, I was one of those kids who grew up in the ghetto. My mother and I were abandoned by my father when I was almost two. My mother had no education and no marketable skills. She tried to work but couldn't stay afloat working for minimum wage. She also couldn't afford health insurance for us. So she broke down and applied for welfare. We were given a monthly allotment of food stamps and money for taxable groceries. We had subsidized housing that we lived in. It was a hellhole. However I remember my mother thanking God with tears in her eyes when I'd catch her praying. We had Medicaid for our health insurance. My mother sent me to public schools where I got involved with the arts, literature, and JROTC. She was passionate about me "being involved in something". Always pushing me to do better. I wouldn't be where I am today had there been no social safety net for me and my mom. I've heard stories I'd rather not mention of how my mom would get money for food before she broke down and got on welfare. God only knows the hell and pain it saved us from. And my mother was a welfare mom...and I was one of those welfare kids. But I'm thankful. I'm going to take the time right here and right now to honestly say thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for allowing us to glean from your lively hood. Thank you for faithfully paying your taxes. Thank you. Thank you for given me a chance. There are thousands of others like me. Sure, by just looking at them you might think you're dollars are being wasted. But let me promise you...our lives would have been a whole lot worse if we had no where to turn. Today I have a family. I'm working and have a good job. I've served in the military as a combat medical specialist. I've also been to technical college. And most importantly , God has used me in ministry to touch others. Thank you.

God bless.

[deacon blues]

Bro Mark and Steinway were prophetically on the mark! Way to go men of God!