The Biblical tithe, re-examined

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Laying in bed waiting for my minion to start making racket and Im just pondering a few things.

The freedom to give is nullified when you tie someones salvation to it and especially takes the joy out it, it now becomes mandatory.


I grew up being forced to hug this relative or that relative and I started to resent the fact that I was not able to express affection the way I wished when I wished. I was weighted down by expectation and what should have been something special became something I did out of obligation and not out of love because if I didnt, Id hear it from all the women in my family.

You may poopoo my story but you dont know my family.

Today I have my own child and something we teach her and enforce with family is that if she wants to hug you, great and if she doesnt, great but do not cheapen the affection my daughter gives by trying to force her or train her to automatically respond that way for you.

I tell my mother and grandmother,"You have to earn that smile, hug and kiss from her." and they listen and understand because there is nothing more loving than your kid running up to you and showing love of their own free will.

Apply that concept to giving.

We have been robbed of the experience of that joy of giving without fear or obligation because we have been weighed down with unbiblical doctrine.

That was the stick, now in the other direction we have the prosperity gospel that is trying to be the carrot.

"Hug memaw cause she might give you $5 like last time."

Just realizing how much manipulation we do and that aint love.

Great post jediwill!

You have summed up in laymen's terms what I have been trying to express through the scriptures. Not only does the tithe being mandatory rob us of the joy of spontaneous giving, and not only is it false doctrine, and not only is it mathematical instead of spiritual, but it is a destructive doctrine that is based on fear and hypocrisy.

Meanwhile, along comes a similar doctrine, (the half shekel/temple offering) that is following the same well-worn path of fear and hypocrisy. These doctrines are of the same spirit. Now the bar has been raised to 15% mandatory giving, before you can give a spirit-led offering. Are we gullible enough to believe that this will be the end of it. I think that it may well be impossible to starve a spirit of greed by feeding it.

Once again the giving is done from fear, manipulation, and greed. The giver may be afraid that they will get sick if they don't give the temple offering. A quick search of the Word will show that it is based on false doctrine, but for some reason that no longer matters.

Fear: That if you don't give, you will become sick with communicable disease.

Manipulation: Twist the scripture to make it say something that it does not say, and justify it because it is "for a good cause". Since when is lying about the scripture a good cause?

Greed: The age-old prosperity doctrine. Somehow our sinful, selfish, greedy human nature is appealed to. Give to me, and you will become rich!

Lies: The Bible declares that all liars (Revelations 21:8) will have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone, but false doctrine is taught every week in churches, with what seems to be impunity. I don't think they believe the very Word they preach from.

Is it okay to preach false doctrine, because everyone else is doing it?

Isn't this what "measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise" is talking about?

2 Corinthians 10:12

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

This is in my opinion, is how false doctrine flourishes. Like a copy of a copy, a recording of a recording, or a picture of a picture, the detail is lost, and the picture becomes fuzzy. Eventually preachers talk about Brother ___________ (fill in the blank) preaches such and such. So they preach it based on the fact that he preaches it, instead of getting it from the Bible. Eventually, you can preach a doctrine that is entirely false, and it can seem entirely ok, simply because somebody else does it.

[Aquila]

I think the "tithe doctrine" also stifles church growth. Many don't attend church because they simply don't have it in the budget to tithe 10% of their gross income. In today's society the average middle class American family is living paycheck to paycheck.

This is where I believe "grace giving" becomes superior (not to mention is far more biblical and grounded in the NT). In grace giving, not only do individuals give love offerings as led when needs of the church are brought before the body, but individuals can prayerfully "vow" (or pledge) to give so much per check, a percentage of their check, or even a certain amount over a period of time (for example pledging to give $3000 over a year's time). This way the church can make financial forecasts, etc. In this way a responsibility to give is established, but what to give is decided in the heart of the individual. Those who give bountifully will reap a bountiful reward. Those who give sparingly will receive sparingly.

2 Corinthians 9:6-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. 9 As it is written,
“He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor;
his righteousness endures forever.”
10 He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness.

[Sean]

I think the "tithe doctrine" also stifles church growth. Many don't attend church because they simply don't have it in the budget to tithe 10% of their gross income. In today's society the average middle class American family is living paycheck to paycheck.

The average "millennial" thinks this way.

When witnessing to them, they are quite informed and have already used this in their argument against religion.

They are actually right, but we will not acknowledge that to them.

[Aquila]

What's up with churches that expect people on fixed incomes, like those on Social Security, to tithe? Personally, I see a problem with that.

[Sean]

They have to go live on bread and water.

[Aquila]

The tithe was only paid by those who had crops and land. Tradesmen, fishermen, merchants, the poor, orphans, and widows were never required to tithe under the Law. In many ways, the tithe doctrine as it is taught in some churches goes far beyond what the OT Law would ever require. If studied out, the tithe was simply an agrarian land tax used to sustain the temple and the Levitical priesthood because the priests were not allowed to own land.

It amazes me that NT leaders in the modern church claim that they should be able to collect the tithe as the Levites... but they refuse to live as the Levites. The Levites lived in established cities with established land for their cattle. These lands couldn't be sold, but were to remain in the possession of the Levites. It was essentially a government provision for the priesthood, public housing, with land from which to harvest and raise cattle.

[Sean]

You guys would faint if I told you how much wealth the "levitical priesthood" in this area of the country has.

I will not because your brain may explode.

[Tithesmeister]

[QUOTE=Aquila;1514496]I think the "tithe doctrine" also stifles church growth. Many don't attend church because they simply don't have it in the budget to tithe 10% of their gross income. In today's society the average middle class American family is living paycheck to paycheck.

Originally Posted by Sean

The average "millennial" thinks this way.

When witnessing to them, they are quite informed and have already used this in their argument against religion.

They are actually right, but we will not acknowledge that to them.

These are both good points and they are true in a lot of cases. How does this reconcile with the following scripture. The context is that John the Baptist, being in prison, sent two men to ask of Jesus . . .

Matthew 11:3-5
"Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another. Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and show John again those things which ye do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, AND THE POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM.

Is it a coincidence that the poor having the gospel preached to them is packaged with five supernatural events? Miracles?

Matthew 10:8 Jesus' instruction to His disciples:

Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Freely (according to Strong's, forgive me Sean), means "without cost".

I would like to hear some pastors comment on this. Please quote scripture, (if you have any).

[Aquila]

[QUOTE=Tithesmeister;1514510]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think the "tithe doctrine" also stifles church growth. Many don't attend church because they simply don't have it in the budget to tithe 10% of their gross income. In today's society the average middle class American family is living paycheck to paycheck.




These are both good points and they are true in a lot of cases. How does this reconcile with the following scripture. The context is that John the Baptist, being in prison, sent two men to ask of Jesus . . .

Matthew 11:3-5
"Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another. Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and show John again those things which ye do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, AND THE POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM.

Is it a coincidence that the poor having the gospel preached to them is packaged with five supernatural events? Miracles?

Matthew 10:8 Jesus' instruction to His disciples:

Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Freely (according to Strong's, forgive me Sean), means "without cost".

I would like to hear some pastors comment on this. Please quote scripture, (if you have any).

Ouch.

[Aquila]

Most strongly disagree with me when I try to explain how ancient Israel's economic system, as codified in the Law of Moses, was essentially a form of agrarian socialism. When it comes to the Levites, we know that they didn't strictly live off the tithe. They also had public lands assigned to them on which to live, farm, and raise cattle. They had no land of their own or personal property. It was very much a public provision. But today, many pastors demand the tithe and live like kings in their own personal palatial mansions. They want the right to claim tithes as the Levites did, but they certainly don't want to live as the Levites did. It's sickening.

What Moses gave to Israel in regard to the tithe was reasonable, and very beneficial to the whole nation. Let us now look at the sensibleness of the Mosaic law of tithing. When it is fully understood, it will be seen that it was intended to benefit the whole of society within Israel. The Levites were central to it all.

Though the tribe of Levi in ancient Israel was empowered to receive tithe of the people (except that part of the tithe needed by the people for festival requirements and that for the destitute), the Levites also had other ways of earning money. Not all of them were supported by the tithe.

The Levites were not given territorial lands like other Israelites. They (along with the Priests) were allotted forty eight cities in which they could earn a living. This means the Levites received a reasonable amount of acreage to cultivate besides the fact that many of those cities were located in some of the best parts of the Land of Canaan.

"And the Lord spoke unto Moses in the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho saying: Command the children of Israel, that they give unto the Levites of the inheritance of their possession cities to dwell in; and open land round about the cities shall ye give unto the Levites. And the cities shall they have to dwell in; and their open land shall be for their cattle, and for their substance, and for all their beasts."(Numbers 35:1–3)

Many people have not realized that Moses gave the Levites the means by which to earn a living without having a dependence upon tithe alone. Other than the tithe of the third and sixth years of a sabbatical cycle, the only Levites that received tithe were those who attended the service of the Tabernacle (and even then it was only that part left over from the festival use by ordinary Israelites). At other times they had to earn their own living within the cities and lands allotted them. The Levites were expected to work for their livelihood like any other normal citizen within the community of Israel.

This is why the Levites were provided with open lands surrounding the cities. The suburb of each Levitical city had 1,000 cubits (about 1,600 feet) on each side for grazing their cattle (Numbers 35:4). There was a further 2,000 cubits beyond the first measure surrounding each city that they were to use as fields and vineyards (verse 5). The two zones represented 3,000 cubits of open land extending outward from each side of the city walls (Lange’s Commentary, vol. II, p.186). At least four square miles of land belonged to each Levitical city. With 48 cities being represented, the cumulative amount of land equaled almost 200 square miles for pasturing and cultivation. It is interesting that this amount of Levitical land was very near the square mileage assigned to the tribes of Benjamin and Zebulun.

These facts ought to put to rest the belief of some church leaders who imagine that the Levites lived solely off the tithe of the other tribes. In no way was this true. The Levites had to work for their living as anyone else. Only when Levites attended the service of the Tabernacle (whether on a full-time or part-time basis) was the tithe expected to support them (Deuteronomy 18:6–8).

Moreover, God was quite concerned that the Levitical lands remain within the tribe of Levi perpetually: "But the fields of the open land about their cities may not be sold; for that is their perpetual possession" (Leviticus 25:34).

Though the Levites were scattered throughout the land of Israel, there was only one place in the land where they could assist in the service of the Tabernacle (and later, the Temple). When Israel got the possession of the Land of Canaan, they set up the Tabernacle first at Shiloh and later in the time of Solomon it was finally moved to Jerusalem where the portable structure was abandoned for the permanent Temple. But the greatest percent of the Levites did not perform services in the Temple. That building was simply too small for all of them to work there. Most Levites performed duties in other employments within the nation of Israel.

The occupation of the Levites were in what we call civil service today. Moses expected this to be the case.

•They were ordained to be teachers of the nation (Deuteronomy 24:8; 33:10; 2 Chronicles 35:3; Nehemiah 8:7).

•They also represented many of the judges of the land, and in the time of Ezra they were the sole members of the Sanhedrin — the Supreme Court of the nation (Deuteronomy 17:8–9; 21:5; 1 Chronicles 23:4; 2 Chronicles 19:8; Ezekiel 44:15, 24)

•Most medical services were in their care (Leviticus 13:2, 14:2; Luke 17:14).

•They were professional singers and musicians (1 Chronicles 25:1–31; 2 Chronicles 5:12; 34:12).

•Producers of books and librarians were almost exclusively Levites (2 Chronicles 34:13).

•It may appear strange to some but even law enforcement was in their care (1 Chronicles 23:4) — they were the "sheriffs" (Moffatt).

•Many of the Levites were architects and builders (2 Chronicles 34:8–13).

As stated before, the Levites earned their living by becoming what we call "civil servants" of the community.

And while the ordinary Israelite who owned land gave his tithe of harvest every third year to the Levites (and the destitute), look at the services he got besides the management of the Temple. Israel got teachers for their children, physicians for their ills, scribes, musicians, singers, judges, and law enforcement officers. A part of their tithe even went to support a type of social security service every third and sixth year for the poor, widows, orphans, and strangers.

This indicates that the one tithe, which was distributed differently over a seven year period, was not simply intended for religious purposes. It was something similar to our taxes that support our educational institutions, our government hospitals, our law enforcement agencies, our cultural societies, etc. When one sees the true picture of Israel’s tithing system, the early Israelites didn’t get too bad a deal in their payment of tithe. Today, however, the "tithe payer" normally gets no such material benefits. He receives the sole opportunity of supporting his church—and that’s all he gets. What a far cry from the ancient tithing system of Israel in which all benefited.