Do you hafta go through the pastor?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by tbpew

I understand that if you believe that ONE guy who you acknowledge as your pastor tells you you need to move from where you are, you need to move. Afterall, that's what obedience is all about!

No body has to OBEY their guides. They need to thoughtfully and soberly consider the qualifications of their guides and the witness of their guide's counsels.

But following is all about free choice when it comes to a guide.

Not following a ruler is all about rebellion.

There you go with "ruler" again.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Miz, when CS or GL come back maybe you can share where a middle ground exists in OBEYING RULERS.

Not obeying rulers is rebellion.
If it is not rebellion, they are not your rulers.

You either have RULERS or you do not have RULERS in Christ.
Even if your's happen to be nice, friendly, patient, grandfatherly-type rulers, they are still rulers.

Rulers have all authority over their subjects in the realm of their Rule.

The middle ground is Follow me as I follow Christ. I believe this one of the qualifications CS is speaking of.

1 Cor 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Paul is wielding some authority in this passage below.

2 Thess 3:8-15 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother

Another exhortation to follow the minister of the word.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

[mizpeh]

tbpew,

Have you had a bad experience with a pastor who lorded his rule over God's people contrary to the word of God?

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The middle ground is Follow me as I follow Christ. I believe this one of the qualifications CS is speaking of.

1 Cor 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Paul is wielding some authority in this passage below.

2 Thess 3:8-15 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother

Another exhortation to follow the minister of the word.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Is the "as" tellling us "in the same manner"?
How did Paul follow Christ?
Being taught and led by the Spirit in all truth.

thanks Miz, great and important point that should be closely considered in the conversation.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

tbpew,

Have you had a bad experience with a pastor who lorded his rule over God's people contrary to the word of God?

No. My experience under a member-minister for over 20 years was really quite good concerning the basics.

The issue comes when people never go on to perfection.
They never move beyond the doctrines of the foundations of Christ.
They never mature because they have spent their energies trying to learn subjection to those that have the RULE over them (I'll await CS's keen eye to point out RULE again). This is because that is the 'goodfaith bargin'; I hear from God and you OBEY me.

The person who identified himself as PASTOR in my life did make a very clear and unequivocal statement though that is somewhat germane (sp?). He said, He'd want no part of being in charge if God is going to give people in this church revelation without going through him.

He preached his vision for a church school.
We home-instructed.

-Very uncomfortable but allowed in his REALM as Pastor OVER the sheep that he taught God put UNDER him.

Originally Posted by tbpew

No. My experience under a member-minister for over 20 years was really quite good concerning the basics.

The issue comes when people never go on to perfection.
They never move beyond the doctrines of the foundations of Christ.
They never mature because they have spent their energies trying to learn subjection to those that have the RULE over them (I'll await CS's keen eye to point out RULE again). This is because that is the 'goodfaith bargin'; I hear from God and you OBEY me.

The person who identified himself as PASTOR in my life did make a very clear and unequivocal statement though that is somewhat germane (sp?). He said, He'd want no part of being in charge if God is going to give people in this church revelation without going through him.

He preached his vision for a church school.
We home-instructed.

-Very uncomfortable but allowed in his REALM as Pastor OVER the sheep that he taught God put UNDER him.

I knew some pastors that talked like this too....very anti-Christ, especially for someone claiming to have the Holy Ghost and led by the same.

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Has Rico made a decision yet?

I don't know... I took the time to write a serious post of encouragement and it was overlooked on account of all of this.


Rico......Follow Christ first.....He will send you support and reinforcements.

[Barb]

Okay, Bro. Pew...here's a question...

We have been quoting the first part of this Scripture...

Heb 13:17

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves:

What say ye of the rest of this verse?!

for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
KJV

[Rico]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Has Rico made a decision yet?

Yes, and No. Yes, I have decided that if God wants me to go into jails with His Word I am willing. No, I have not decided to do it apart from being a "member" of a local church. I am, however, finding it harder and harder to keep myself from calling the local sheriff to see if I can arrange a visit to his jail.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

He did that before even starting this thread. I don't think that was his intention of this thread, just to get the idea of others is all.

I can speak for myself, thank you very little.