US leads the world in per capita and raw numbers.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

It sure did help thanks. I really do understand why some people are for the death penalty. And I understand why some people don't like life without parole because of taxpayers dollars being spent. But it really bothers me that innocent people are sometimes caught up in this system and some probably executed. I do think if you are going to impose the death sentence do it quickly. If one state like Texas has these big problems imagine how much the whole nation is going through. Do you know how the federal system differs from the state as far as death penalty cases? Do they have an appeal system in place? And what most of the federal death penalty cases are (assuming murder is one of them) is that the only crime the federal system uses the death penalty on? Hope you don't mind all the questions but it is very interesting to me that I don't think a lot of people really care to know as long as it doesn't affect them personally. But as Christians I believe we should try to help when we VOTE.

Life without parole ironically is actually much more cost effective than death penalty cases.

Texas is a special case in my opinion, especially Harris County. One other problem here is no public defenders office, even in capital cases the defense is appointed by the judge, which are overwhelmingly former prosecutors.

In Texas murder "with special circumstances" is the only grounds for capital (although some are working on legislation to include child molestation in certain circumstances).

I understand the feds are trying to expand their laws to include possession of a substantial amount of drugs.

As far as Christian involvement, voting is important. Learning the issues is also important. Personally, though I see the problem of "fixing" the criminal justice system (as important as that is) as secondary to "fixing" the society which is so screwed up it has nearly 2,000,000 of its citizens in prison??

To quote restate conclusion from previous post...

The undisputed fact is we have nearly 2,000,000 incarcerated adults in this country.

On the one hand it’s an undeniable tragedy, on the other, WOW what opportunities abound for the church to get outside its walls, get its hands a little dirty, and make a difference!!

What can we do to minister? Isn’t it time to stop withdrawing from “the world” and hiding behind the excuse, “they” don’t live up to our “standards”, and make a difference?

It me the fundamental flaw in the “Tulsa-like” logic is the siege mentality. IF for example (please notice the all cap IF) the entertainment industry is Satan’s tool, don’t run away, take it back!!



We need to start getting involved in taking our society back. IMHO The long term answer isn't in tougher laws or prison reform, but transforming lives. We need to influence not just government and politics, but the arenas of entertainment, education among others.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Life without parole ironically is actually much more cost effective than death penalty cases.

Texas is a special case in my opinion, especially Harris County. One other problem here is no public defenders office, even in capital cases the defense is appointed by the judge, which are overwhelmingly former prosecutors.

In Texas murder "with special circumstances" is the only grounds for capital (although some are working on legislation to include child molestation in certain circumstances).

I understand the feds are trying to expand their laws to include possession of a substantial amount of drugs.

As far as Christian involvement, voting is important. Learning the issues is also important. Personally, though I see the problem of "fixing" the criminal justice system (as important as that is) as secondary to "fixing" the society which is so screwed up it has nearly 2,000,000 of its citizens in prison??

To quote restate conclusion from previous post...

The undisputed fact is we have nearly 2,000,000 incarcerated adults in this country.

On the one hand it’s an undeniable tragedy, on the other, WOW what opportunities abound for the church to get outside its walls, get its hands a little dirty, and make a difference!!

What can we do to minister? Isn’t it time to stop withdrawing from “the world” and hiding behind the excuse, “they” don’t live up to our “standards”, and make a difference?

It me the fundamental flaw in the “Tulsa-like” logic is the siege mentality. IF for example (please notice the all cap IF) the entertainment industry is Satan’s tool, don’t run away, take it back!!



We need to start getting involved in taking our society back. IMHO The long term answer isn't in tougher laws or prison reform, but transforming lives. We need to influence not just government and politics, but the arenas of entertainment, education among others.

Thanks James.

In light of what happened down the road from us here in East TX last week we do need to try to find better solutions for our young people now.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Thanks James.

In light of what happened down the road from us here in East TX last week we do need to try to find better solutions for our young people now.

First I really LOVE your avatar. True separation of church and state. :-)

Second, please forgive me, to which incident were you referring?

[Cindy]

Thank you. Last weekend a teenager and three friends apparently shot and stabbed her Mom, 2 younger brothers and Dad. Then set the house on fire. The Dad managed to get to a neigbor's 300 yards away through barbed wire fences and get help. He is in critical condition. They have 4 in custody, high school kids. The daughter is 16 so she is in a juvenile facility. The parents didn't want her to date one of the young men and so I guess this is the solution someone came up with. Not that uncommon but really hurting a lot of people in a small Texas town.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Thank you. Last weekend a teenager and three friends apparently shot and stabbed her Mom, 2 younger brothers and Dad. Then set the house on fire. The Dad managed to get to a neigbor's 300 yards away through barbed wire fences and get help. He is in critical condition. They have 4 in custody, high school kids. The daughter is 16 so she is in a juvenile facility. The parents didn't want her to date one of the young men and so I guess this is the solution someone came up with. Not that uncommon but really hurting a lot of people in a small Texas town.

Sorry to hear it. Reminds me of the Ryan Frazier capital case I second chaired when I was prosecuting in Victoria. He was a Baylor freshman who snuck home in the middle of the night, fatally stabbed his father, mother, younger brother, even dog and two cats, set the house on fire and drove back to Baylor.

If she is sixteen I would be surprised if the state does not try her as an adult....

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Sorry to hear it. Reminds me of the Ryan Frazier capital case I second chaired when I was prosecuting in Victoria. He was a Baylor freshman who snuck home in the middle of the night, fatally stabbed his father, mother, younger brother, even dog and two cats, set the house on fire and drove back to Baylor.

If she is sixteen I would be surprised if the state does not try her as an adult....

Yes I had heard about it happening before. I am sure they will try her as an adult. I think the others are 18 and over. 2 males and another female. I think her story was going to be that she somehow escaped. But she was found in one of the other suspects home. From local news reports the Dad was able to identify one or more of them. Do you know if it's true in Texas if you are involved whether you do the actual shooting, stabbing, or whatever causes the deaths you are equally responsible? This area of East TX is really reeling right now as can be expected. The family were very active in church including the little ones, one I believe 8, the other 13. And the mother drove for meals on wheels I believe. The boys were in the church band.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Yes I had heard about it happening before. I am sure they will try her as an adult. I think the others are 18 and over. 2 males and another female. I think her story was going to be that she somehow escaped. But she was found in one of the other suspects home. From local news reports the Dad was able to identify one or more of them. Do you know if it's true in Texas if you are involved whether you do the actual shooting, stabbing, or whatever causes the deaths you are equally responsible? This area of East TX is really reeling right now as can be expected. The family were very active in church including the little ones, one I believe 8, the other 13. And the mother drove for meals on wheels I believe. The boys were in the church band.

Truly sad. Likewise Ryan's parents were good people involved in charities and their church. Mom had just baked and mailed him a cake.

The case with the youngest tried as an adult that I was involved in was a 14 yo who killed his step-mom.

"Equally" responsible? The answer is it depends, but the general rule is yes. If. for example, she talked them into it, even if she weren't there. The US Supreme Court has recently held you cannot execute a defendant who was a juvenile at the time of the murder. However, the murders can be "stacked" which could mean three sequential life sentences. First degree murder you have serve a minimum of 35 years on a life sentence before you can apply for parole. (Which does NOT mean it will be granted). So a worse case scenario would be 105 actual years before applying.

However, since that is a worse case scenario any plea offer would be of course somewhat less than that..

Did that help??

[Cindy]

Yes it did help thanks. I just cannot imagine what those young kids are going to be facing. And you mentioned in another post that Texas doesn't have a public defender's office but a judge appoints one correct? I don't know where this trial might be maybe in Tyler but I just wonder what kind of counsel they will have. Does Texas have a higher violent crime rate than the rest of the country, do you know?

[ChristopherHall]

Isn't it true that crime rates are far lower in Europe...even though they don't have the death penalty?

[Cindy]

I am not sure brother Hall, but I have read that the police in Britian use to not carry a weapon. I am not sure if that is still the case.