secret rapture

[Sam]

The standard dispensational teaching is that Jesus will rapture His bride before the tribulation and then return with His bride to rule on the earth after the tribulation. This is from a recent Bible Study:

Program of His Coming
Rapture Revelation
In air to earth
for the church with the church
before the tribulation after the tribulation
rewards in heaven ruling on earth
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Revelation 19:11-19
Revelation chapter 4

The UPC has published a position paper which states:
"...We reject preterist notions that the prophecies of Revelation 4-19 were fulfilled in AD 70...As Oneness Pentecostals we believe that Revelation 4-19 refers to events that are yet future ..."

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Sam

The standard dispensational teaching is that Jesus will rapture His bride before the tribulation and then return with His bride to rule on the earth after the tribulation.

Sam,

I agree with the above statement, but doesn't most UPC churches hold to the post trib teaching?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Sam,

I agree with the above statement, but doesn't most UPC churches hold to the post trib teaching?

In the UPC different views of when the rapture will occur are allowed.
Some are pre-tribulation like Bro. S.G. Norris and the Apostolic Bible Institute in St. Paul, MN and like the school in Stockton, CA.
Some are mid-tribulation like the old Oneness Pentecostal Correspondence Course.
Some are post-tribulation like Bro. Irvin Baxter.

The stand that the UPC took in that position paper from 2005 was against preterism. In the wording it was stated that Revelation chapters 4-19 are still future but that is not firmly believed among its members or ministers. Bro. Baxter teaches (as far as I understand) that we are some where in the tribulation period right now. I hope I am not misrepresenting what he teaches.

Personally, I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture but I realize that among our brothers and sisters there are differences of opinion on this.

[Luke]

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Both of these passages support a secret rapture as the first one refers as to the rapture being like a thief in the night and the second says it takes place in the so fast that in the time it takes to blink your eye it will have taken place.

[bbyrd009]

It is interesting to note the
liberal mis-interpretation that
leads to a physical rapture doctrine in the OT, at
"fly, like a bird" or whatever...the relevant Scripture
isn't coming to me at the moment; there at the end, one of the
prophets...

[Michael The Disciple]

Let us be more specific.

"Secret Rapture" generally means you believe the Church is taken away and will not go though the great tribulation.

There will be a rapture. It will come AFTER the great tribulation.

It is assumed that if one says they do not believe in a secret rapture they believe the rapture comes AFTER the tribulation.

Carry on.

[bbyrd009]

Ezekiel 13:20
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

American Standard Version
Wherefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Darby Bible Translation
Wherefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against your pillows, that the souls which ye catch by their means may fly away; and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, the souls that ye catch, that they may fly away.

English Revised Version
Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Webster's Bible Translation
Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, with which ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

This actually starts at verse...18 or so.
Note the "pillows." I would not say that this denies that
something happens there in 2 Thess, but that if a
"pillow" has been provided for you...
seek, and you will find.

[Godsdrummer]

No I do not believe in a rapture. Period. I do not believe in a comming great tribulation. I do not believe in a litural 1000 year reing on earth.

I beleive the kingdom of God on earth was established in full force in 70ad when God through (using) Rome destoyed his enemies the Jewish relgious leaders, and destroyed the Temple.

The idea that God would spend 4000 +- years dealing with mankind up to the cross, then only deal with mankind for 2000 years after the cross? I don't think so. God is eternal, come on, what is God going to do for the rest of eternity go do it all over again on another universe.

Those of you that think Christ is going to sit on an earthly throne in Jerusalem, seem to forget God already sat on an earthly throne for almost 2000 years before the cross. And we know how that worked out. Most of the time the Jews disobeyed against God and God allowed their enemies to subdue them until they repented.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

every eye shall behold Him...

Is there resurrection of all the dead before He returns....so that every eye will behold Him?

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

No I do not believe in a rapture. Period. I do not believe in a comming great tribulation. I do not believe in a litural 1000 year reing on earth.

I beleive the kingdom of God on earth was established in full force in 70ad when God through (using) Rome destoyed his enemies the Jewish relgious leaders, and destroyed the Temple.

The idea that God would spend 4000 +- years dealing with mankind up to the cross, then only deal with mankind for 2000 years after the cross? I don't think so. God is eternal, come on, what is God going to do for the rest of eternity go do it all over again on another universe. U

Those of you that think Christ is going to sit on an earthly throne in Jerusalem, seem to forget God already sat on an earthly throne for almost 2000 years before the cross. And we know how that worked out. Most of the time the Jews disobeyed against God and God allowed their enemies to subdue them until they repented.

The absolute best post on the thread!