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God chooses who will be saved and who will not before anyone is born.
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No, what Calvinism teaches is that God has chosen before the foundation of the world those who would be saved.
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What is the difference? Let's not split hairs. Before the world is before one is born, bro.
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All people are predetermined as to who will be saved despite their will or volition.
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Humans will never, on their own, want to be saved. God changes the will of the elect and causes them to want to be saved.
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If that is so, then why do we read God wills that no one perish? That would mean there is no one who will perish whatsoever if we have no choice.
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Redemption is a sham since God does not allow us to choose to be saved.
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Redemption is not a sham because redemption refers to the action of the redeemer and not the redeemed. God PURCHASED His elect. We are God's creation and, as such, we have NO RIGHTS in the matter. So-called "free will" cannot mean we have the RIGHT to choose because then God would have no right to punish us for exercising our right to choose against Him. Humans do indeed have the capacity (capability) to choose against God (we're all born doing exactly that) but not the right to choose. Further, if God did not specifically interfere with human will, no human would ever choose God.
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That wreaks havoc of all common sense. To say that we are born to choose to not serve God, is to remove all choice from the matter.
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Because God does not allow us to choose salvation, He is a monster.
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Humans will NEVER, on their own, WANT to choose salvation.
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I disagree.
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Who do you think you are to claim that you have the RIGHT to choose whether or not you want to ACCEPT (something a superior does to an inferior) God?
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I think I am a creation of God that has will and is not a mockery to the thought of being redeemed without my volition. Fact remains, Gdo would be a monster if we could not choose. You claim he wills that all men not perish, but yet at the same time wills that some will perish, To will that some perish is monstrous.
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Anyone who is predestined to be saved alone can be saved.
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Only those predestined to be saved will even want to be saved.
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Big difference! (not)
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Jesus said that all those whom the Father has given to Him WILL come to Him. Those who do not come to Jesus are those whom the Father has not given to Jesus.
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You fail to ascertain the thoughts of
Romans 8 where we read FIRST that "them who love God" are mentioned before we read about predestination.
Rom 8:28-29 KJV And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The above reads in this order, which is all important to the issue: First God mentions those who love Him. And then verse 29 says that THESE ONES WHOM GOD FOREKNEW, and NOT FOREORDAINED, were predestinated. Foreknowing who would love Him is much different than predestinating whether or not some would love Him. He FOREKNEW those who would choose to love Him, and those whom He foreknew would do so are ALONE predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ.
FOREKNOWING is not PREDESTINATING.
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God chooses that certain folks will go to hell without their input whatsoever.
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No, God only chooses those whom He is going to save and that choice has nothing to do with the particular individuals involved. All humans, if left to themselves, if God does not specifically interfere with their will, would go to that eternal lake of fire. NO HUMAN ON HIS OWN WILL EVER CHOOSE GOD.
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You avoided the obvious that I pointed out. If God wills certain ones be saved, then he will certain ones be lost. You can make it SOUND nice by avoiding the negative, but it is still there. He wills that some go to hell in your doctrine. Maybe you do not "look at it that way", but it is the case.
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Everyone is really only a robot, since we are programmed for damnation or salvation.
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Everyone is BORN bound for that eternal lake of fire, BORN dead in trespasses and sins. If God did not choose to interfere with the will of some humans, no one would ever be saved. In a sense, we are just robots because we're all born with a sinful nature and born slaves to sin. Because of Adam's sin, we're all born "programmed" to sin.
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More than that, you believe we're robots because we're programmed to sin, and robots because we do not even have any input in whether or not God will change that.
It's worse than robots, it's a lottery from our perspective!
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VERSUS....
The Word teaches that God wills that all men be saved, making it impossible for there to be a predetermined election of the individual.
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Does He will that all men be saved or that all of His elect be saved?
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He says NOT ANY, period. No "elect" qualifier.
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The "any" in that passage in Peter's epistle ("God is not willing that any should perish") applies only to the "you" in that passage. If it was God's WILL that all men be saved then all men WOULD be saved, since God said He would accomplish ALL His purpose.
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That is circular reasoning. You claim it cannot mean everyone since you already believe he predestinates so many. The text does not say that, though.
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Since there are those who are going to be cast into the lake of fire, it is clear that God does not WILL that all men be saved.
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More circular reasoning. You say that is the case because you already believe only certain ones are considered to not perish in God's will.
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Also, if God WILLED all men to be saved, Jesus would have no basis for saying "All those whom the Father has given Me WILL come to Me" (emphasis mine).
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Incorrect. Jesus is speaking about foreknowing again.
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Then, of course, there are the vessels God has fitted for destruction.
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But why?
Romans 1 clearly states that God saw sinners' refusal to glorify God, and THEN AFTER THAT FOREKNOWLEDGE, gave them up.
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Redemption is offered to everyone, and anyone can be saved accordingto their own choice.
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God does indeed command all men everywhere to repent.
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Which would be a joke since you would have God slipping His hand to his mouth to hide his words to Gabriel, saying, "But only those whom I choose will be blessed for this." And then God ribs Gabriel and smirks.
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But the only ones who will ever CHOOSE to be saved are the elect, those with whose wills God has specifically chosen to interfere so that they will want to be saved. Left to themselves, no human being will ever want to be saved.
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Wrong. God FOREKNOWS who seeks to love Him.
Romans 1 says the same thing. Some choose to refuse to acknowledge God before God gives them over. Calvinism makes a sham out of the whole thing by having God give people over because they refused to acknowledge His glory after God disallows them from acknowledging His glory.
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Under no circumstances can anyone continue in sin after salvation and maintain their salvation.
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The Calvinist would agree with this statement.
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WRONG. Calvinists teach that regardless of their state at death, if a soul ever truly was saved in the past, they are saved upon death. In other words, they can be sinning and yet saved.
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The Bible teaches that nations, and not individuals, were predestined. Any individuals noted were representative of their NATION or the progenitors of a nation that actually experienced controlled events by God. In Romans 9, Esau never served Jacob, but Esau's descendants served Jacob's descendants, showing the issue is NATIONAL. Pharaoh stood for Egypt, not for himself.
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Are you so sure predestination is for nations and not individuals? Further, aren't WE a "holy nation" according to Peter?
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And that is driving home my point! THE NATION is going to be saved, but the individual must be in that nation of the church.
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However many people decide to serve God can do so outside any thought that they were not allowed to choose it themselves.
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No one will EVER decide to serve God on their own because it is their WILL to sin, their WILL to rebel against God.
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That is not true just because you say it is. Show me bible.
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Your doctrine makes man sovereign over God and says that man has the power to thwart God!
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Nonsense. My doctrine gives due dignity to God and does not make Him a fool to wait for someone to either refuse or reject Him before He gives them over to a reprobate mind, all because God actually disallowed any to acknowledge his glory to begin with! He watches to see what a person does while at the same time already made the person do something, in your view.
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