FEAR FACTOR: Pentecostal/Apostolic Style

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

Let's see, this is what I think anyway. Some preach fearful messages of the dangers of becoming a heretic- in order to control.

Control folks from leaving the first "revelation" and anything deviating from the first "revelation", I mean departure of any resemblance from the original "revelation" is heresy in it's self and will lead to being an apostate.


To me this type of "fear" preaching, is a type of control, and any time you try to control people by painting a picture of doom if they do not do what they are told to do- it is manipulation.

Fear is a way to manipulate people into doing what an organization wants them to do.------imo

Jeanie, let's set aside the broadbrush for a second. What revelation is say a great man like JT Pugh or James Kilgore missing that others that have left the UPC?

[StMark]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Actually, Mark, that thought never crossed my mind, at least not in that way. I am thinking more in generalities relating to comments about the AOG and the UPC, in regards to people leaving them and going to non-denom churches, where in many of them God is moving.

But you mentioned "additional Revelations"

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by StMark

But you mentioned "additional Revelations"

Of course I did. When one looks at church history, you can see a trend from the Dark Ages to now. Revelation came just as I mentioned.....bit by bit. Every group thought they had it all and stopped where they were. That is why a new "heretical" group had to emerge which retained what the former groups had plus what God have given them fresh.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Of course I did. When one looks at church history, you can see a trend from the Dark Ages to now. Revelation came just as I mentioned.....bit by bit. Every group thought they had it all and stopped where they were. That is why a new "heretical" group had to emerge which retained what the former groups had plus what God have given them fresh.

Okay, I understand that. I'm not one of those who believes that God can and does only move within the confines of the UPC or Apostolic churches. I believe God can move and do whatever he wants to.

However, but when it comes to "revelations", what new revelation are traditional Pentecostals missing or are we not moving towards? Is there a new one that's on the horizon or one that's been around for a while that they've missed?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Of course I did. When one looks at church history, you can see a trend from the Dark Ages to now. Revelation came just as I mentioned.....bit by bit. Every group thought they had it all and stopped where they were. That is why a new "heretical" group had to emerge which retained what the former groups had plus what God have given them fresh.

I read someone saying that religions are formed when you come to the last frontier and can't move on by faith.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I you missed my point, or I was poor in making it....that is that apostolica is so busy protecting the "revelation" that anything else that comes along which may, indeed, be God, gets labeled as "heretical." i.e. "emergent church" etc. I think it can also be called the "hold the fort" mentality.

NOTHING great has EVER moved forward or made a difference with that mentality.

So where is the line drawn ?

When is ones "emergent" really "heretical" ? How are you to tell the difference ? How do you assertain that ones "revelation" is of God ?

Who has the right to judge the first "revelation" as being obsolete and the second as it's replacement ?

With the above questions in mind, could the "fear factor" stem more from uncertainty than an attempt to be a "controlling" issue ? Why is this event immediatly labeled as a "control" issue ?

Is pentecost(UPC) capable of doing ANYTHING that is not immediatly labeled as the WRONG thing to do ?

Just curious..

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by StMark

Jeanie, let's set aside the broadbrush for a second. What revelation is say a great man like JT Pugh or James Kilgore missing that others that have left the UPC?

Well lets put it this way,

A group receives the revelation of baptism in Jesus name-

but another group get a revelation of the power of His healing,


Hasn't that been a issue to Jesus name people?

We have had issue with those who have a revelation of His healing power, but denounce them because they do not have a revelation of baptism?

[StMark]

Originally Posted by scotty

So where is the line drawn ?

When is ones "emergent" really "heretical" ? How are you to tell the difference ? How do you assertain that ones "revelation" is of God ?

Who has the right to judge the first "revelation" as being obsolete and the second as it's replacement ?

With the above questions in mind, could the "fear factor" stem more from uncertainty than an attempt to be a "controlling" issue ? Why is this event immediatly labeled as a "control" issue ?

Is pentecost(UPC) capable of doing ANYTHING that is not immediatly labeled as the WRONG thing to do ?

Just curious..

My father lived thru the "LATTER RAIN MOVEMENT". They thought they had a "New Revelation". God was moving in their churches and no longer moving in the traditional churches.

The latter rain movement not only gave the oneness churches a headache, but also the AoG.

Then, along came Willaim Branham with a "New Revelation" and God was no longer moving in the traditional Pentecostal churches. I heard it from THEIR mouths that the era of Pentecost was over.

There are MANY more that have come along with a new revelation that have ended in ruins.

Great men who have died and went on with the Lord lived through many of these so called "NEW REVELATIONS" including TW Barnes, David Gray, and many others. Thank God they didn't fall for anything just because it was the new thing to do

I understand that times change, culture changes, methods change, technology changes, I'm all for change, but when it comes to "New Revelations"??? I'm a little more cautious about that

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by StMark

My father lived thru the "LATTER RAIN MOVEMENT". They thought they had a "New Revelation". God was moving in their churches and no longer moving in the traditional churches.

The latter rain movement not only gave the oneness churches a headache, but also the AoG.

Then, along came Willaim Branham with a "New Revelation" and God was no longer moving in the traditional Pentecostal churches. I heard it from THEIR mouths that the era of Pentecost was over.

There are MANY more that have come along with a new revelation that have ended in ruins.

Great men who have died and went on with the Lord lived through many of these so called "NEW REVELATIONS" including TW Barnes, David Gray, and many others. Thank God they didn't fall for anything just because it was the new thing to do

I understand that times change, culture changes, methods change, technology changes, I'm all for change, but when it comes to "New Revelations"??? I'm a little more cautious about that

Good post, Mark!!!

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

Well lets put it this way,

A group receives the revelation of baptism in Jesus name-

but another group get a revelation of the power of His healing,


Hasn't that been a issue to Jesus name people?

We have had issue with those who have a revelation of His healing power, but denounce them because they do not have a revelation of baptism?

I've heard of God's healing power and witnessed all of my life.
Jesus Name people should have both and many do.