US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Really? How many Palestinians do you know personally? Also how many Israelis do you know personally?

This web site is provided by an Israeli human rights group.

http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp

How many children do you have Prax?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I was being sarcastic but yes there are mothers that have said they want their sons to die a martyrs death killing Israelis. It was on the news. She said it. When the wall was not up yet a lot of suicide bombers were children. It's a sad thing, not a good thing.

[Praxeas]

BTW that site seems pretty balanced. Usually it's just someone pointing their fingers at one side and not rather reporting on both

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Every Palestinian mother dreams of the day her son can die in Jihad while killing a jew. Bombs strapped to their bodies was the prefered method until the wall

Bro, that's not true. I know a few Palistinian families. One owns the CedarLand Bakery & Restaurant, fantastic Mediterranean fare by the way. They love their kids like the rest of us. The one thing I rutinely see is that they view their leaders the way many Americans view the Republicans. For example, I know a man who believes that the Republicans are ideological religious extremists who are hawkish regarding military policy, but he feels they are safer than the Democrats so he supports the Republicans holding his nose. Most of the Palestinians I've talked to feel the same way about their leadership. The realize these guys have an ideological religious extremism, they also realize that these people have a hawkish anti-Israel and anti-American military agenda... but they feel these leaders are the best option they have. But when Israel bombs a civilian neighborhood and kids are killed, their leadership makes sure it makes the television and gets the people upset in protest against Israel. It's a mess. They are going to have to work out a workable deal... the only other option is one side killing every last one of the other... and that's less acceptable than a deal in my opinion.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bro, that's not true. I know a few Palistinian families. One owns the CedarLand Bakery & Restaurant, fantastic Mediterranean fare by the way. They love their kids like the rest of us. The one thing I rutinely see is that they view their leaders the way many Americans view the Republicans. For example, I know a man who believes that the Republicans are ideological religious extremists who are hawkish regarding military policy, but he feels they are safer than the Democrats so he supports the Republicans holding his nose. Most of the Palestinians I've talked to feel the same way about their leadership. The realize these guys have an ideological religious extremism, they also realize that these people have a hawkish anti-Israel and anti-American military agenda... but they feel these leaders are the best option they have. But when Israel bombs a civilian neighborhood and kids are killed, their leadership makes sure it makes the television and gets the people upset in protest against Israel. It's a mess. They are going to have to work out a workable deal... the only other option is one side killing every last one of the other... and that's less acceptable than a deal in my opinion.

If you read further I said I was being sarcastic, and I was referring to Palestinians THERE, not those that left

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If you read further I said I was being sarcastic, and I was referring to Palestinians THERE, not those that left

Doh! I see it now. Love ya bro.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Doh! I see it now. Love ya bro.

Also to blame are the "Imams" and those in government control. Hamas does not care about the Palestinians. For them this is all about power, control and their hatred for Israel.

I also blame the Arabs. They have enough money to rebuild the entire infrastructure of Palestine and the influence to get them to lay down arms. Without a threat Israel will have something better to do than attack them..

The only question remaining then is Jerusalem, but the Palestinians already control the Temple Mount.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Maybe I'm thinking about it too simplistically, but we CAN'T stop arms shipments? Aren't there secret ops for that? Or have I seen too many movies?

Since its inception, the US Navy's primary function has been to guarantee freedom and free trade on the high seas. To interfere with a legitimate cargo delivery would require extenuating circumstances.

Also, if the cargo and crew were impounded - what do you do with them? US Courts have recently ruled that pirates and illegal combatants have the same rights as American citizens. The Navy really has their hands tied here.

If Israel had intercepted the ship, under the laws of war they could have sunk the whole thing and hanged everyone on board who wasn't wearing a uniform or service insignia. Of course the international outcry would have been tremendous.

The current situation vis a vis the United States Courts and illegal combatants is very problematic for our service personnel. How many Navy officers want to throw away their careers because some leftist official or government prosecutor wants to ensure the the rights of international terrorists?

Remember what happened to those two Border Patrol guards? US prosecutors hounded and persecuted them as far as they could - and did so with impunity. The same thing can happen to the commander of any US Naval vessel. You'd better believe that those commanders are acutely aware of this.

[Evang.Benincasa]

You would think that Hamas was a super power.

These guys are firing homemade rockets, against modern state of the art weapons of Israel.

Anyone notice that in Northern Gaza that it looks like the place has been hammered into rubble?

These people live in 4th world conditions, coming up against a country that can pound them in the ground like a tent stake.

Believe me, Israel isn't cowering in the corner curled up in the fetal position.
Israel has enough fire power to wipe out every man woman and child in Gaza, and would do it, if not for the rest of the world breathing down Israel's neck.

America might turn a blind eye to its misbehaving dependent in the Middle East, but the rest of the world is getting a little wore out with Israel playing the victim.

Do the research. Try to find out what is going on over there, by other means than your American media. Try to find out from sources who are not scared out of their minds that AIPAC will destroy their careers.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ educate yourselves, try to understand the entire issue. We are Christians, and we are on no one's side who would use violence wether it is suicide bombs, or stinger missiles fired from an Apache helicopter. http://www.btselem.org/English/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ts-gaza-israel

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055471.html

http://rhr.israel.net/

http://www.hrw.org/en/middle-eastn-a...ed-territories

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-u...-gaza-20080121

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17362

http://www.jatonyc.org/UNresolutions.html

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/index_en.html

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You would think that Hamas was a super power.
...

You said Israel would wipe out every man, woman and child in Gaza if it were not for the rest of the world breathing down Israel's neck. To substantiate your views you included links to 9 different international news and advocacy sites because apparently the American media is covering up for the bad guys in Israel.

Yet... 5 of the 9 sites are Jewish or Israeli. More than half your sources are from the "bad guys" in Israel. This leads me to think that you're not being fair to the Israeli side here. The fact of the matter is, the Israelis treat the Palestinians with more deference than the Palestinians themselves do.

And what happens when the Israelis pull back? The Palestinians start killing one another. When it's all said and done, far more Palestinians have been killed by their own or by their Arab brothers than have been killed by Israel.

If you don't want Palestinians to be killed, say it in Arabic.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

You said Israel would wipe out every man, woman and child in Gaza if it were not for the rest of the world breathing down Israel's neck. To substantiate your views you included links to 9 different international news and advocacy sites because apparently the American media is covering up for the bad guys in Israel.

Yet... 5 of the 9 sites are Jewish or Israeli. More than half your sources are from the "bad guys" in Israel. This leads me to think that you're not being fair to the Israeli side here. The fact of the matter is, the Israelis treat the Palestinians with more deference than the Palestinians themselves do.

And what happens when the Israelis pull back? The Palestinians start killing one another. When it's all said and done, far more Palestinians have been killed by their own or by their Arab brothers than have been killed by Israel.

If you don't want Palestinians to be killed, say it in Arabic.

I made sure to give you Israeli sites.

You miss the point, we as Christians have no dog in this fight. It is a mess that is fueled by a government that continues to claim a victim's position.

You are not understanding the world view of this, we are not back in 1948 or 1967, we are sitting in 2009. Israel would mop up Gaza with every man woman and child if given the chance. If Israel was trying to seek peace, then why does she continue to constantly agitate the situation by sending her settlers into Palestinian Occupied Territory? That's not what you call trying to keep peace. Palestinian kill other Palestinians? Do you have a clue to why?
Because both groups feel that the other isn't doing enough to get the invader out of their land. Yes, Invader. The Palestinian is treated like a prisoner on a reservation, behind a wall, and bars. Having to watch their wives for at least two generations give birth at IDF check points.
It takes sometimes hours to get in and out of the occupied territories, to go to work, hospitals, and schools. Life is unbearable for these people, so they get angry, not only with the oppressor, but with those who are in the jail cell with them. Who they believe not to be working with them to eradicate the invaders. Who side are YOU on? Israel? Palestine? Hamas? The PLO?
You should be on no one's side who would resort to bloodshed, and murder.
I thought I stated that before? I really thought I made myself clear on that matter? So, I will repeat myself. We should be for PEACE, not death and destruction of anyone. No one's human rights should be forfeited. No children should be placed in harms way, and no 4 year old should have their legs torn off.

The BAD GUY? How about balance of power? Do you mean to tell me that there is a balance of power? Come on already, compare the fire power of the two groups involved. Stop and think of what is going on over there and educate yourself. Pray that peace will come, and that the fighting would end when the Peace Activists in Israel and in Palestine wake the government up that brute force and antagonizing the people will never bring peace.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com