Ministers Under Pastoral Authority

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Sam

no further thoughts/comments on the subject of pastoral authority?

I agree they are not ALL abusive or take advantage of what is considered to be "Pastoral Authority", but...it has been my experience that man in general get prideful when they obtain positions and status too early in their ministry and some even later just by reason of the fallen nature of man.

There was a good reason why Jesus did not begin his ministry until his 30's. When Jesus was learning and growing the Bible records several passages where he was growing in wisdom and in relationship with God and man.

The role of a Pastor is clear...to feed the sheep of God. If they are not apt to teach or preach then they have no business being a Pastor. Many times the call of God appears to be transgenerational, in that; for many PK's, they know of no other way of life than preaching. Some are God-called, and some are self-called.

It gets tiring the number of men who get their pride stroked by preaching unbiblical forms of submission that have nothing to do with God given "pastoral Authority". What is it with men who think they have to be top dog and lord it over people?

Just so you understand, and before those same bulldogs who love to judge and critisize me come out to howl: I do believe the Bible teaches mutual submission, and a hierarchy of leadership/authority - I just believe as Christ taught: the least among us/the servant to all is the greatest among us. Those men who get off on being in charge, sitting in places of honor, and receiving blind obedience are terrorists waiting to happen -cults if you would

Now come on out of the woodwork all ye posse members and snipe. I am getting off of here and going back to work.

Blessings, Rhoni

[RandyWayne]

To me, the "generational" thing is also very telling.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

To me, the "generational" thing is also very telling.

Some churches are run like a family business, a family cash cow.

[Dora]

What about the Mark Hanby plan stated in his book, We Have Not Many Fathers? Does this work in the big picture? I worry that this principle is slightly "off" in practice...or at least the way MH has conducted himself. Seems something is out of whack...seems like a glorified pyramid scheme. Spiritual Amway?

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Dora

What about the Mark Hanby plan stated in his book, We Have Not Many Fathers? Does this work in the big picture? I worry that this principle is slightly "off" in practice...or at least the way MH has conducted himself. Seems something is out of whack...seems like a glorified pyramid scheme. Spiritual Amway?

I'm am not sure of MH teaching, but this is where the problem begins...there are many teaching authority, but they don't understand how to be a father...there is a BIG difference

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Dora

What about the Mark Hanby plan stated in his book, We Have Not Many Fathers? Does this work in the big picture? I worry that this principle is slightly "off" in practice...or at least the way MH has conducted himself. Seems something is out of whack...seems like a glorified pyramid scheme. Spiritual Amway?

What was his plan?

[Dora]

His plan seems to be the notion that a minister should pay tithes of his tithes to his spiritual father. For instance, all of MH's spiritual "offspring" are asked to send tithes to him. I'm wondering who he sends his tithes to. Bro. Kilgore mentored many young preachers who have gone on to pastor and evangelize. I don't think Bro. Kilgore ever required that they pay tithes to him. If you're still attending his church, well, yeah! Sometimes larger churches sponsor satellite works so there could be a continued sense of gratitude that would constitute continuing to pay tithes. But once you have established a work on your own, the umbilical cord is severed.

However, I do think it's a great idea to have a fund for supporting elderly ministers especially our founding fathers. Just don't think I agree that pastors should have to continue paying tithes to their spiritual mentors for perpetuity.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

I'm am not sure of MH teaching, but this is where the problem begins...there are many teaching authority, but they don't understand how to be a father...there is a BIG difference

Is MH still in active ministry?

Where is he now?

What's he doing?

I'm not looking for gossip, just wondering.
For a while he was a "bright and shining star" in the UPC.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Dora

His plan seems to be the notion that a minister should pay tithes of his tithes to his spiritual father. For instance, all of MH's spiritual "offspring" are asked to send tithes to him. I'm wondering who he sends his tithes to. Bro. Kilgore mentored many young preachers who have gone on to pastor and evangelize. I don't think Bro. Kilgore ever required that they pay tithes to him. If you're still attending his church, well, yeah! Sometimes larger churches sponsor satellite works so there could be a continued sense of gratitude that would constitute continuing to pay tithes. But once you have established a work on your own, the umbilical cord is severed.

However, I do think it's a great idea to have a fund for supporting elderly ministers especially our founding fathers. Just don't think I agree that pastors should have to continue paying tithes to their spiritual mentors for perpetuity.

Absent from the fact that there are a lot of people on AFF who don't believe in the tithe....preachers are not exempt from tithing. That is one of the problems with abuse of authority. Those in authority think that authority stops with them.

The Body of Christ is made up of many members each subject one to another. Tithing is not about getting money tithing is about honoring God and we should all honor God.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Sam

Is MH still in active ministry?

Where is he now?

What's he doing?

I'm not looking for gossip, just wondering.
For a while he was a "bright and shining star" in the UPC.

I don't really follow him, but it seems like I heard that he got out of the UPC.