UPC Affiliated?

[MomOfADramaQn]

Originally Posted by n david

My father is licensed with the UPCI. Before he retired, the church he pastored was affiliated with the UPCI and it caused a division when he retired. The district got involved with the selection of the new pastor ... and as with most districts, politics got involved. Let's just say it was a mess and half the church split.

There may be legal reasons for making a church affiliated - representation from the UPCI for the church in any legal proceedings. Other than that, there's no reason for a church to be affiliated with the UPCI. We saw first-hand the mess it creates.

It is not always bad - there are some pastors who are not what they should be and it does sometimes gives the saints of those churches someone to turn to.

[Hoovie]

rrford is one of the better people to make arguments for affiliation. I am sure one could search the archives and find those posts.

["GL"]

Affiliation can also be of great benefit to the church planter/ home missions pastor. An affiliated church is eligible to receive funds from HQ (CFC, SFC, etc).

[BadgerBoysMom]

I have seen the disadvantage where the pastor holds the license but the church is not affiliated. In this case there is no oversight outside of the board. BUT if the board is made up of weak men or yes men the pastor is in complete control. The pastor can too easily become controlling. Maybe not even intentionally but all too often it does happen.

In these cases when unethical things go on the saints are helpless. They can leave and try to start over somewhere else or they can stay with their trusts broken in the pastor.

Unfortunately many won't leave especially IF they have been in the church in question for many years or if they have children growing up there. The question becomes... do we go or do we stay...

And for those that do, it seems to take a long time to completely recover....

[Moe]

Actually the truth is, the UPCI has NO juristiction over ANY church business even though you are affiliated UNLESS they are INVITED in. Once they are invited in it can be difficult to reverse their rulings but Still the church board has more power than the District. (they don't like that known) Civily they cannot interfere with local church business. It should also be noted that it is the HQ stance. However, some Districts like to misuse their power in certain political moves. It can get very ugly! Most District officials and pastors do not understand this and it causes great conflict within the UPCI and those outside to scoff. Affiliation works if a pastor vacates without a predecessor. They are to step in and hold the church together until new pastor is elected. There are far more negetives than positives and have heard that HQ has considered in the past to do away with affiliation. If the UPCI gets sued as a whole and you are affiliated it could affect your local church solvency. Best way to avoid it? IMHO DO NOT AFFILIATE! I speak from experience.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by Moe

Actually the truth is, the UPCI has NO juristiction over ANY church business even though you are affiliated UNLESS they are INVITED in. Once they are invited in it can be difficult to reverse their rulings but Still the church board has more power than the District. (they don't like that known) Civily they cannot interfere with local church business. It should also be noted that it is the HQ stance. However, some Districts like to misuse their power in certain political moves. It can get very ugly! Most District officials and pastors do not understand this and it causes great conflict within the UPCI and those outside to scoff. Affiliation works if a pastor vacates without a predecessor. They are to step in and hold the church together until new pastor is elected. There are far more negetives than positives and have heard that HQ has considered in the past to do away with affiliation. If the UPCI gets sued as a whole and you are affiliated it could affect your local church solvency. Best way to avoid it? IMHO DO NOT AFFILIATE! I speak from experience.

What might be an example of a situation that would require "inviting them in?" thanks.

[Moe]

Originally Posted by BadgerBoysMom

I have seen the disadvantage where the pastor holds the license but the church is not affiliated. In this case there is no oversight outside of the board. BUT if the board is made up of weak men or yes men the pastor is in complete control. The pastor can too easily become controlling. Maybe not even intentionally but all too often it does happen.

In these cases when unethical things go on the saints are helpless. They can leave and try to start over somewhere else or they can stay with their trusts broken in the pastor.

Unfortunately many won't leave especially IF they have been in the church in question for many years or if they have children growing up there. The question becomes... do we go or do we stay...

And for those that do, it seems to take a long time to completely recover....

Disagree respectfully.....The UPCI only has oversite of a UPCI minister if he is 1. Doctrinally in error 2. Morally in error 3. Vacates with no predecessor 4. Has church trouble and ASK the for the District help. Any other interference of the UPCI is civily wrong. The church Board (which your pastor is and should be the Chairman of) has the ruling power for ALL business of the church.

BTW, a pastor should be in contol. I would never go to a church that is laity controlled. That would be a mess and not bibically correct. Could a pastor misuse his authority? Sure! Could a laity board misuse their power? sure. Could a Music person misuse their authority? Sure! Could a saint in the pew misuse their authority? Sure. There are many people that misuse authority. But that being said the structure always should be that your pastor should be in control of the church business, BUT he needs a general board that is voted on by the congregation and ratified at each yearly business meeting.

If I read between the lines on your post there must have been an issue that caused hurt and mistrust. I urge you to take this to the Lord. He can reveal so much more than we can. Stay with the boat and do not jump. You have family that depends on you. Keep your spirit right and watch God turn this all around and bring peace to your situation. I will be praying for you.

I might have stepped on some toes but do not mean to offend. Just know what has worked best for churches as a whole.

Take care

[Moe]

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

What might be an example of a situation that would require "inviting them in?" thanks.

Should the pastor or the church board need assistance in 1. church trouble 2. Business meeting 3. Pastoral change, etc. they would call or write to their District official and ask for an official to come officiate or investigate. Should that offocial come in and give a ruling, they then expect the local church to abide by their "suggestion" (which is legally all it is). Should the church or pastor decide to go against the District and the District try to flex it's muscles and try to force it, the pastor/church can contest their interference and there may be a charge filed against the pastor. The District can NEVER file against the church, EVER!!! They will go after the pastor. This is where it can get interesting. You can hire in defense and contest their ruling (which the majority of all cases are lost at the appeal level) and you can also seek civil law assistance. The Judge usually rules with the local church board as the law only recognizes the church corporate status. they do not recognize the District Board.

Don't know if that answered your question or not. Don't have all the answers but do have experience. LOL

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by Moe

Should the pastor or the church board need assistance in 1. church trouble 2. Business meeting 3. Pastoral change, etc. they would call or write to their District official and ask for an official to come officiate or investigate. Should that offocial come in and give a ruling, they then expect the local church to abide by their "suggestion" (which is legally all it is). Should the church or pastor decide to go against the District and the District try to flex it's muscles and try to force it, the pastor/church can contest their interference and there may be a charge filed against the pastor. The District can NEVER file against the church, EVER!!! They will go after the pastor. This is where it can get interesting. You can hire in defense and contest their ruling (which the majority of all cases are lost at the appeal level) and you can also seek civil law assistance. The Judge usually rules with the local church board as the law only recognizes the church corporate status. they do not recognize the District Board.

Don't know if that answered your question or not. Don't have all the answers but do have experience. LOL

Thanks for your answers! And prayers!

[Moe]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Our church voted about two years ago now, to become a non-affiliated church. Our pastor still holds a UPCI license for now.

But we are looking for a PCI license ;-)

What a lot of congregations and pastors do not realize is that the UPCI is a "Ministerial" organization. It does not rule the congregation. They can try but they have to authority to do so.

When a pastor changes license affiliation it can affect the church body if they are involved within their District fuctions.

You might note that there is "Bible" for a pastor position but no bible for District officials. They are needed for fellowship but should keep their place and stay out of local church business.