Who's Job is it???!!! - Page 2

freeatlast · #11 09-25-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Atkinson

I agree with you and concur. They are too easily used as a control mechanism. It isn't always about modesty and separation, those are just buzzwords used by some to mask a plain and simple desire to control, bending people to the will of the pastor rather than the will of God. As though the two were one and the same.

I kinda think God hates that.

I am 100% fer sure He hates it. ;-)

commonsense · #12 09-25-2009, 10:26 AM

The new convert process should be a slow learning observation process. No timeline at all.
In the past attended a upc church that had a GREAT revival. Many baptized, received HG and lots of excitement in the church.
When evangelist left, the new "saints" were put in a new converts/decipleship class on Wed nights while the others were in regular service upstairs.
The asst pastor (who taught class) was very zealous re the truth and gave the "rules" early on. Within a month only a few remained. After a year ............

I was saddened and dismayed to see the results.

missourimary · #13 09-25-2009, 01:24 PM

Why should standards be pounded into someone? Most people will, given time and led right, conform to a standard set by a true leader.

I've seen more people conform due to compliments than condemnation.

What is preached more in a church? How to dress? How to act toward each other? Obedience? Tithes and offerings and give and you'll be blessed financially? That the pastor is the head of the church? That the devil is real and out to get us? That we'd better do what God wants or we'll burn in Hell forever and ever? or...
That God is in control, that He is great and wonderful, we are His sheep and his children, that He will take care of us, and protect and defend us?

Why not stop telling people how to live and show them what living really is??

My question is not who's job it is, but what is our job?

As for the pastor's job... IF he is the head of the local church as is commonly purported by some, the head is still NOTHING without the body, and can do NOTHING on its own. A lot of leaders would do well to remember that. A good head doesn't beat up its body and downgrad its responsibilities while praising itself.

JMO

tbpew · #14 09-25-2009, 02:40 PM

Carp,
great to have your posting in mix...

I fully agree with the JA interpretation on this one....
this is not a counsel that generally flows from a Pastor wanting to be the "supreme potato" ....
much more likely it is his efforts to constrain the foot soldiers from playing youthful (or even resentful) dress-ups with the newly converted.

Carpenter · #15 09-25-2009, 03:20 PM

What is interesting to me is when a relatively new convert makes the statement (or something similar and 99% of the time a woman), "no one had to tell me about standards, one day I just decided not to wear pants...or cut my hair, etc...It was Holy Ghost conviction."

Ok...maybe. However, more often than not, when you identify with a group, the group treats you well, shows you lots of attention, tells you they love you, and makes sure you remain part of their group OF COURSE you are going to assimilate to what they believe and no one is going to have to tell you!

However, and like a friend of mine with their wedding rings, all it takes is for someone to make a comment here and there or to look down their noses about the evils of wearing or not wearing this or that and you pretty much get the picture.

Like I said before, the exact same thing happened to us..."um, Carpenter, we really don't allow TVs or wear shorts here, but we love you and are sooo glad you are at our church, here, have this cherry pie we baked for you..."

StillStanding · #16 09-25-2009, 03:49 PM

This thread reminds me of a situation at my wife's church where she was raised.

One Sunday night the pastor chastised people for getting together for bible studies! If they wanted a bible study in their home, they were to invite HIM to teach it! If they had a question about anything in the bible, they were to come to HIM for answers.

He actually told the congregation that they were NOT TO HAVE BIBLE STUDIES!

IMO, it's all about control! The truth is that this pastor didn't trust people to study the bible on their own. He was the "anointed" one, the king of his domain, and the official interpreter of scripture.

The people were mere sheep, incapable of figuring out anything on their own. They are not to be trusted with their own lives! They need the pastor to tell them everything to do.....and to do it without complaint!

Falla39 · #17 09-25-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary

Why should standards be pounded into someone? Most people will, given time and led right, conform to a standard set by a true leader.

I've seen more people conform due to compliments than condemnation.

What is preached more in a church? How to dress? How to act toward each other? Obedience? Tithes and offerings and give and you'll be blessed financially? That the pastor is the head of the church? That the devil is real and out to get us? That we'd better do what God wants or we'll burn in Hell forever and ever? or...
That God is in control, that He is great and wonderful, we are His sheep and his children, that He will take care of us, and protect and defend us?

Why not stop telling people how to live and show them what living really is??

My question is not who's job it is, but what is our job?

As for the pastor's job... IF he is the head of the local church as is commonly purported by some, the head is still NOTHING without the body, and can do NOTHING on its own. A lot of leaders would do well to remember that. A good head doesn't beat up its body and downgrad its responsibilities while praising itself.

JMO

My thoughts are that Christ should be the HEAD of every home and every
church or place of worship. Except the LORD build the home or church, it
will not stand. In is vain labour! And a house divided against itself, (in other
words, out of order), cannot stand. "But he (Jesus) answered and said, Every
plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up". Matt.
15:13.

Falla39

missourimary · #18 09-25-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falla39

My thoughts are that Christ should be the HEAD of every home and every
church or place of worship. Except the LORD build the home or church, it
will not stand. In is vain labour! And a house divided against itself, (in other
words, out of order), cannot stand. "But he (Jesus) answered and said, Every
plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up". Matt.
15:13.

Falla39

A word aptly spoken, sis Falla! AMEN!!!