A Must Listen... - Page 2

Jeffrey · #11 10-06-2009, 11:30 AM

He and Paul Washer are certainly rocking the boat.

Wise words. This is the same author of the Cross and the Switchblade. He's speaking to a fellowship that is becoming more and more carnal and distracted from their purpose.

Scott Hutchinson · #12 10-06-2009, 04:32 PM

I'm convicted,and I am not where I need to be with God myself to be trueful about the matter.

Scott Hutchinson · #13 10-06-2009, 04:40 PM

Hopefully nobody will mind me doing this,but this is a good listen as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh1lDP_XnoI

Ron · #14 10-06-2009, 05:14 PM

Powerful stuff RRFORD, if one isn't moved by this, I don;t know what will.

Jeffrey · #15 10-06-2009, 05:19 PM

What's unfortunate, is someone will take the vulnerability of a convicting message like this, to insert their poor and broken theologies. We need a call to anguish = justifiying our prohibition on tv, our stand on pants on men, skirts on women, and our prohibition on make-up. We need anguish!

Hopefully not. Because a message like this one is one we all need. Hard to phathom anguish living in North America. Very hard.

mizpeh · #16 10-06-2009, 07:37 PM

bump

Esther · #17 10-07-2009, 10:11 AM

Heart felt!

notofworks · #18 10-07-2009, 12:01 PM

First, I would ask that my words are received in the spirit in which they're expressed.

The foundation of what he is saying is incredible and useful for every church and Christ follower.

But the context of his words are difficult for me. I have a transcript of the message. The wholeness of the message was to condemn "Seeker-Sensitive" churches, the leaders of which are, Willow Creek, Saddleback, Northpoint, etc.

The assumption that is largely made is that these "Seeker" churches don't anguish, confront, correct, etc., and nothing could be any possibly further from the truth. Near the beginning of his message he condemns, pointedly, drama in the church, while at the same time being the driving force behind the #1 church drama production ever (The Cross and the Switchblade).

I have never....EVER....in all my years of following Christ (I've known nothing BUT church) seen anything like the passion for Jesus Christ and for reaching people, like I've seen at Willow Creek. Bill Hybels weeps through nearly every message and the non-stop aching of his heart is to bring people to faith. I've been there.....several times....and the people, thousands of them, and are given to God's work like I've never seen. I know some of them and stay in contact. Their lives are enveloped in Christ. I've never, ever felt the forceful rush of the Holy Spirit like I did at Willow Creek.

Again, the words concerning anguish are valuable and completely true. But the motivation behind the words does trouble me.

Just wanted to say something nice about the churches that are often torn down in the religious world and my apologies in advance and I've said this incorrectly.

Jeffrey · #19 10-07-2009, 12:32 PM

He never said your man Hybels name one time, what would make think he was directing his remark to Hybels if it doesn't apply or isn't true?

Two types of Apostasy in the NT: Judaizers and their ilk that added to the Word of what was required for salvation, thus mocking grace, and then there's the other crowd, those who instead of seeing grace as an escape from our former lusts, see grace as a pretext for sin. Some going too far, some not going far enough. The pulpit must be clear, and truth spoken in love, but truth nevertheless.

I was just concerned some would hijack a video like this (on AFF especially) and use it to prop up their murals of holiness.

notofworks · #20 10-07-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

He never said your man Hybels name one time, what would make think he was directing his remark to Hybels if it doesn't apply or isn't true?

Two types of Apostasy in the NT: Judaizers and their ilk that added to the Word of what was required for salvation, thus mocking grace, and then there's the other crowd, those who instead of seeing grace as an escape from our former lusts, see grace as a pretext for sin. Some going too far, some not going far enough. The pulpit must be clear, and truth spoken in love, but truth nevertheless.

I was just concerned some would hijack a video like this (on AFF especially) and use it to prop up their murals of holiness.

I'll not turn this into a fight and leave it alone after this. Again, I completely agree with the general content. But it's very obvious to whom he was referring and I'll refrain from posting my proof. But I hoped my words would be received in the spirit in which they were given. I see "Seeker Sensitive-ism" differently than Rev. Wilkerson, and I'll stand by my words. But one more time, I agree with the general framework of his words and encourage all to take them to heart.