Great clarification. Now clarify where on one set of 3 crosses in one gospel both thieves mocked Jesus and in another gospel and another set of 3 crosses one thief mocked Jesus and one did not.
Simple. Maybe someone already noted this. But at first BOTH were mocking, and then conviction set in on the second thief and he turned penitent.
Each writer emphasized a different part of the scene, and putting it altogether we get the whole picture.
And another famous point I like to make... how can we know which part is true if we think part is not? It becomes subjective and a situation where we think the parts that are true ARE THE PARTS WE WANT TO BE TRUE. lol The folly is not in thinking the bible is infallibly correct, but the idea that part is not and how some people know which parts are not.
Any thoughts on the POINT of the thread now?
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Simple. Maybe someone already noted this. But at first BOTH were mocking, and then conviction set in on the second thief and he turned penitent.
It doesn't actually say that, but you could be right. It would be strange for one of the writers to mention only the mocking, and the other not to mention it at all, but OK. There are stranger things than that, in the Bible!
Another possible explanation is that the repentant one started mocking after he got 'saved'. Maybe he was hoping Jesus would save him literally, right then. Get him down from that cross, forgive him, and send him on his way. When He didn't, he got ticked. Who knows? (I'll answer for you: nobody knows. We can only guess.)
Quote:
Each writer emphasized a different part of the scene, and putting it altogether we get the whole picture.
Any thoughts on the POINT of the thread now?
Sure! Since both of the thieves were mockers (either before or after the repenting), that would show us that the tree of the life was (either before or after the fall, maybe ) also a tree of death! Maybe it transformed itself, one way or the other, at some point.
Sure is a lot of guess-work in Bible study!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
It doesn't actually say that, but you could be right. It would be strange for one of the writers to mention only the mocking, and the other not to mention it at all, but OK. There are stranger things than that, in the Bible!
Another possible explanation is that the repentant one started mocking after he got 'saved'. Maybe he was hoping Jesus would save him literally, right then. Get him down from that cross, forgive him, and send him on his way. When He didn't, he got ticked. Who knows? (I'll answer for you: nobody knows. We can only guess.)
Sure! Since both of the thieves were mockers (either before or after the repenting), that would show us that the tree of the life was (either before or after the fall, maybe ) also a tree of death! Maybe it transformed itself, one way or the other, at some point.
Sure is a lot of guess-work in Bible study!
I think you honestly know better than that, Timmy. lol. The bible depends upon common sense in reading contextually with truths it stated elsewhere in mind. The bible is not so nonsensical as you make it out to be, and I think you know it.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I think you honestly know better than that, Timmy. lol. The bible depends upon common sense in reading contextually with truths it stated elsewhere in mind. The bible is not so nonsensical as you make it out to be, and I think you know it.
Or maybe it's not a sensical as you make it out to be!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Or maybe it's not a sensical as you make it out to be!
Yeah right.
Timmy, you and I are two individuals. The bible has proved itself effective and true with countless more millions. And the simple fact that people cannot stop mocking it tells me it is greater than they try to imagine it is, by sheer virtue of the fact that they cannot stop talking about it, albeit negatively. Either way, Jesus is greater than you think! ! So, nya nya.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Timmy, you and I are two individuals. The bible has proved itself effective and true with countless more millions. And the simple fact that people cannot stop mocking it tells me it is greater than they try to imagine it is, by sheer virtue of the fact that they cannot stop talking about it, albeit negatively. Either way, Jesus is greater than you think! !
Your claim that the Bible proves itself could also be true, for some. Maybe it does work for millions. Lots of people put it to work for them, and, surprise, they do feel peace and joy and assurance of salvation! For them, I say, great. Keep doing what works for you. But for other millions, it does not work. It doesn't provide peace and joy for everyone who puts it to the test. Healing doesn't happen for many of those who put their faith in it and follow its instructions. Many people can't tell if they are really saved or not. (And there's a poll to prove it! )
When people make statements like "I know it's real, because it works for me" or "God has never failed me", they don't seem to realize that if they expect people to take them at their word, then they must also accept other people's testimony, even if it is opposite their own experience. They also refuse to realize that any universal proposition can be disproved by just one counter example. That's all it takes. And it takes a "logic of faith" to say otherwise. With the logic of faith, you can believe anything you want (or feel obligated to). It works for Christianity just as well as it does for Hinduism or any other religion.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Timmy, you and I are two individuals. The bible has proved itself effective and true with countless more millions. And the simple fact that people cannot stop mocking it tells me it is greater than they try to imagine it is, by sheer virtue of the fact that they cannot stop talking about it, albeit negatively. Either way, Jesus is greater than you think! ! So, nya nya.
Ah. You edited to add some thoughtful insight!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
But seriously. Did I say anything untrue in post 12? I just reread it all. There is nothing there that is either untrue or unreasonable. Some is speculation, of course, but you have given us some of your speculation, too. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
I can see how you might view it as mocking, though. I could have toned that down, maybe. But the points I made are, IMO, valid. Aren't they?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Timmy, you and I are two individuals. The bible has proved itself effective and true with countless more millions. And the simple fact that people cannot stop mocking it tells me it is greater than they try to imagine it is, by sheer virtue of the fact that they cannot stop talking about it, albeit negatively. Either way, Jesus is greater than you think! ! So, nya nya.
mfblume, your simplistic approach to a complicated mess regarding what the Scripture is actually saying is why there is WAR in Religion.
If it was simple, we would agree, plain and simple. But no, the argument/debate continues, and will continue until death do us part. Fighting over who and what God IS, will never stop. His plan for mankind has plummeted into an endless and bottomless pit of “Words”.
I've debated subjects such as this one; Thou Shalt not KILL. Go ahead, slice it, dice it, and put your slant on it, but the facts are, the Old Testament is a blood bath. If killing women, children, those in hospitals, the elderly or retarded, is done today the Country or Warmongers responsible for such actions are deemed wicked, evil and guilty of genocide or crimes against humanity.
Yet, we continue to justify this evil because the Bible is considered a Holy Book by the Church or those who have their special take on God. We explain away anything or anyone who questions the blatant atrocities and practices of "God's Children" because they somehow are exempt from their very own Law, twisting the Scriptures to protect a Faith or Idea that is engrained into our brain or culture.
Your Saulistic approach of being Head and Shoulders above everyone with, "It's so easy, it's so simple, you dummies just don't get it,” gets real old. I'm tired of going in circles with things that are simple; Killing is Killing. If we're not supposed to kill, then don't kill. If we are supposed to kill, then let's kill. If the killing in the Old Testament contradicts the Ten Commandments, admit it. If we don’t admit it, then the guess work will never end and the belly of confusion will only get fatter.
I think the Bandwagon of Religion has been circled and there are desperate people trying to "Hold the Fort". But there are only so many rabbits in the hat, and people are tired of "Smoke and Mirrors" to get them to the next level of Faith. We want Facts, Bro Blume. The trust factor in Churches today is all but gone by people who’ve become skeptical after years of watching the fallacy of Religion and the dogmas that wound up being lies.
) also a tree of death! Maybe it transformed itself, one way or the other, at some point.
! So, nya nya.
)
Re: The Two Thieves and Two Different Crosses
Show Me the Money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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