Does Dead Really Mean Dead???

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

crashino ... or crescendo????

HAHAHA


You know its bad when you go to Dictionary.com and type in Crashino, and find the right spelling, and then still cut and paste the wrong one.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Maybe Paul is speaking of two different things. I guess you would have to define the "old man" and the new creature. Is the "old man" speaking of our flesh with its sinful nature or something else?

Does being new creatures in Christ mean we don't struggle with the flesh.

Concerning "I die daily", here is another translation:

1Co 15:31 [I assure you] by the pride which I have in you in [your fellowship and union with] Christ Jesus our Lord, that I die daily [I face death every day and die to self]. Amp

The Amplified is not always the best text to use. Most of the scholars and bible commentaries hold to the belief that Paul was stating that every day of his life, he put his life in jeopardy. It all has to do with the belief some propigated at that time that there was no resurrection.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

crashino ... or crescendo????

Actually if we are talking about never sinning again or in some way presenting our works as worthy it IS a "crashino".

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Actually if we are talking about never sinning again or in some way presenting our works as worthy it IS a "crashino".

Now Steven....Chuck never said anything about our presenting our works as worthy. This is all a work of the spirit, or it is not a work at all.

I was just pondering on the doctrine known as Entire Sanctification, and the question came to my mind, What does it mean to be "dead" and really just thought it might be an interesting topic. No alterior motives. Just interested in some deeper discussion.

[Hoovie]

Understood.

In my experience those who claim entire sanctification deal with the same sin problem as other Christians. Sometimes it might be pride rather than tobacco addiction, but no less a problem in regards to the sin nature.

Attaining complete sinlessness in this lifetime is a dream - a good dream perhaps, and one that is more realized in some people than in others, but still yet just beyond our grasp.

When one claims entire sanctification it is usually connected to a particular achievement or experience on their part, some make the claim at the time of Holy Spirit baptism, and always look back to that particular point in their life.

I prefer to see the cross as the pivotal time in my salvation and go to it as reference. Not saying that others do not, but it often seems there is a particular focus on that one night when we... rather than emphasizing what he did on the cross.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Actually there have been onesness groups who have taught Entire Sanctification or a second work of grace doctrine or eradication of the sin nature.
There was a group in Ky. called The Emmanuel Church Of Pentecost or something like that that taught entire sanctification.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Actually there have been onesness groups who have taught Entire Sanctification or a second work of grace doctrine or eradication of the sin nature.
There was a group in Ky. called The Emmanuel Church Of Pentecost or something like that that taught entire sanctification.

Agian, I would venture to say they fought the same battles as other Christians.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Oh sure they did.

[ManOfWord]

I likewise have had folks try to convince me of the "Entire Sanctification" doctrine. The problem I have encountered is that I have never seen anyone attain it. I guess I would have an easier time of believing it was even possible if it were able to be observed.


It almost comes down to those who espouse it saying that they CAN'T sin. Not that they don't sin, it is just that since they have been entirely sanctified, it is not possible for the acts they do to be sin. Kind of a circular reasoning, but I still have never seen anyone reach sinless perfection yet, even those who spout it.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I likewise have had folks try to convince me of the "Entire Sanctification" doctrine. The problem I have encountered is that I have never seen anyone attain it. I guess I would have an easier time of believing it was even possible if it were able to be observed.


It almost comes down to those who espouse it saying that they CAN'T sin. Not that they don't sin, it is just that since they have been entirely sanctified, it is not possible for the acts they do to be sin. Kind of a circular reasoning, but I still have never seen anyone reach sinless perfection yet, even those who spout it.

I think the doctrine is very tempting to new converts, but it ends up being a faith destroyer because they inevitably wonder if they really achieved it or not.

It seems better to just focus on the cross, and submit to teaching in the word that allows for failures, weights, even sins, and has a way of dealing with it.