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07-29-2010, 07:30 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
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Originally Posted by Hoovie
It's probably 100 total actually.
Is it less desirable to retain 85% than to lose say 75% and fill that void with new converts? Hmmm,... I'll have to think about that.
I really did not post this thread to defend the Amish Christian religion, but rather question whether we are missing a key element in church growth.
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Why does it have to be one way or the other?
Also I would question that 85% retention rate is an 85% retention of believers rate.
They are retaining people to a lifestyle.
I wasn't asking you to defend them, but if evangelism were left only to the Amish the whole world would go to hell and they would keep expanding their little subculture.
That is hardly a revival.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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07-29-2010, 07:35 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
Why does it have to be one way or the other?
Also I would question that 85% retention rate is an 85% retention of believers rate.
They are retaining people to a lifestyle.
I wasn't asking you to defend them, but if evangelism were left only to the Amish the whole world would go to hell and they would keep expanding their little subculture.
That is hardly a revival.
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Right and unless they introduce polygamy and start having more girls, that rate of growth is forever going to be slow...as it would even with polygamy
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-29-2010, 07:49 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Right and unless they introduce polygamy and start having more girls, that rate of growth is forever going to be slow...as it would even with polygamy
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Slow? I can't think of any American denom that's growing faster...
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-29-2010, 07:59 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Slow? I can't think of any American denom that's growing faster...
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percentage wise? Let's talk about a denom that is growing larger based on new converts, not family members raised in the church.
If I start a new church org and win a soul...I have 100% growth rate.
If that convert stays for a year or 2...I have 100% retention...sounds impressive 
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-29-2010, 08:01 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
percentage wise? Let's talk about a denom that is growing larger based on new converts, not family members raised in the church.
If I start a new church org and win a soul...I have 100% growth rate.
If that convert stays for a year or 2...I have 100% retention...sounds impressive |
At what point does inbreeding become a major problem in a group that has no new blood introduced?
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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07-29-2010, 08:04 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
At what point does inbreeding become a major problem in a group that has no new blood introduced?
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I read an article once stating it was already a problem
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-29-2010, 08:10 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
...
They are retaining people to a lifestyle.
I wasn't asking you to defend them, but if evangelism were left only to the Amish the whole world would go to hell and they would keep expanding their little subculture.
That is hardly a revival.
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Isn't retaining people to a lifestyle the big issue now with the "Apostolic Identity" emphasis?
Isn't a great part of OP effort spent on "expanding their little subculture"? by emphasizing bringing people out of other churches and baptizing them in a unique way?
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07-29-2010, 08:19 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Isn't retaining people to a lifestyle the big issue now with the "Apostolic Identity" emphasis?
Isn't a great part of OP effort spent on "expanding their little subculture"? by emphasizing bringing people out of other churches and baptizing them in a unique way?
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converting people to a Oneness view and re-baptizing them in what we view as a biblical formula, has been the norm for since before I joined a UPC. But it's not so much winning them and retaining them to a culture or lifestyle as it is a doctrine. Though many churches are enamored with the lifestyle as well insisting everyone conform...you know if you aint running the aisles you must be full of pride and all that
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-29-2010, 08:22 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
percentage wise? Let's talk about a denom that is growing larger based on new converts, not family members raised in the church.
If I start a new church org and win a soul...I have 100% growth rate.
If that convert stays for a year or 2...I have 100% retention...sounds impressive |
I am puzzled. Are babies born into the families of Christians somehow of less value?
Impressive? Perhaps. But if he stays for a lifetime and multiplies by five to ten during that time you would have numbers that rival anything being produced by UPC AOG or the Southern Baptists.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-29-2010, 08:23 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Revival The Missing Link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Impressive? Perhaps. But if he stays for a lifetime and multiplies by five to ten during that time you would have numbers that rival anything being produced by UPC AOG or the Southern Baptists.
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the point is, percentages really aren't all that impressive when viewed against the larger picture.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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